Idea New Class Idea: Thief

+1

 

I like it a lot. +1

 

I think it could do with two things to not make it too OP. They don't have to be added together, but when they was brought up in the ctf community server, people were quick to go from, idea to Pyro with elf bow flight and arrow stacks from archer.

1st. A new steal, wipes the previous inventory. This means that if I steal an elf's inventory, then steal an archer, I lose all elf based items.

2nd I gain item abilities, but not class abilities. This means that if I steal from a Pyro, I get a Pyro bow, which when fully charge, still ignites enemies, but I don't gain the true damage to enemies on fire. If I steal from an elf, I gain all the bow abilities, but I can't regen arrows. Abilities like the shield and pyro frenzy you'd have to decide if that's a class or item ability.

 

Great idea, just make sure it can’t swap things like a max dwarf sword or assassinate without some sort of limiting factor

 

The class sounds fun with a nice interesting ability, similar to scout.

However, stealing an item essential to a class, e.g. a ninja's sharp 5 golden sword, would then render the class very inefficient for dealing damage. A strategy to deal with that (aside from replacing the stolen item with a wooden sword) might be to steal the durability of the weapon (dependent on the number of times the thief hits the victim while the victim is holding a weapon) which would reduce the durability of the stolen item and the item with the stolen durability would reappear in the thief's inventory- E.g. a thief attacks a heavy who is holding a diamond sword who has full durability; the thief hits the heavy x number of times and steals a 50 of the sword's durability. Then the thief would have the sword with 50 of the sword's durability in the inventory and the heavy would have 1562-50=1002 durability. (I know the durability of the heavy's diamond sword is still massive but it it is just a suggestion and is therefore subject to change). This is just in case some players are solo capping the flag without a medic and got their items stolen or the medic dies on the journey

Another problem is that the thief might be able to steal 3 different items from various other class and then become op (e.g. thief stealing ninja sword, archer bow and mage damage spell). A way to combat this might be to have a cooldown time between stealing an item and the next time the thief steals an item.

Overall, this class has the potential to be very well designed and balanced; just needs a few more changes and then we will probably see it implemented soon.

 

Lol this would be so annoying to play against. Some thoughts:
1) maybe place a cooldown on swapping sticks (cuz u have 3) this is so that thief wouldn't be that annoying when it comes to swapping people's items out of their inventory cuz u can just do it again and again.
2) restriction of stealing steak (eg. Only be able to steal 1 steak max)

Overall, great, simplistic idea with great gameplay opportunities. I think it could be further streamlined, perhaps add a few more abilities to make it more unique. Cool idea though, +1

 

add ram

 

This could prove very useful in the meta. I foresee offensive pushes with a soldier & thief being quite effective, as the soldier can distract a pyro long enough for the thief to steal the axe and render it 100% useless. Also taking an archer's bow if they try to recov, taking medic webs in tight flag rooms, taking an elf's wind as they try to escape the flag room... many possibilities. Wouldn't mind seeing it added.

 

I like the class idea however i believe it needs a little tweak with the swap mechanic because you don't want the effected class to just sit there with a wooden sword. Therefore, there's needs to be an incentive on the effected side in the event they lose their primary weapon in order to stay in the game. If I'm an archer and i lose my bow or a heavy that loses my diamond sword it would probably be more beneficial to just respawn and get all your items back rather than walk around with a wooden sword. Perhaps giving them some sort of buff for the duration of the swap? I'm not sure but just throwing ideas out there.

Also, just a little thought but i think this class has potential to be extremely toxic. Just imagine a thief coming up to you, you switch off your primary to not lose it, and you continue to get bashed with a sword. The moment you pull out your primary the thief could just take it away rendering you 100% useless and no way to defend yourself in a 1v1. I think the easiest fix here is that if you hit a player with your sword your stick goes on a short cooldown for 5s or something to prevent this form occurring. This will incentives theif players to actually strike when no seen rather then just rushing at players.

 

swap the flag out of their inventory, remove scout. Gg best recovery class

 

I understand what you're going for but you have to consider those that will just play the class and roam around not really targeting the enemy team's bulk defence. This is when it could potentially be the most toxic and i think its important to recognize what a class like that could introduce into ctf. The idea of 'if you lose your primary you should just respawn' just doesn't sit well with me and that's why i think there should be more of an emphasis on creating an incentive for those hit with the stick to continue to play rather than just respawning.

 

Well i think it's probably because if you lose your primary you're just kind of stuck in a limbo. It's almost like a weird instakill where instead of dying you end up in purgatory where you can chose to fight in the same life or respawn adding to your death toll. In addition you have no idea when you will get your stuff back so it could take seconds or minutes which is valuable playing time. Maybe the person can be given back their stuff after 30s? or a minute? just as an incentive to stay while the thief keeps what they got?

And in terms of the whole meta thing this seems like a class addition to address community concern where as I'm not sure it is beneficial to bringing new players in. I can't imagine playing your first game, just learning the mechanics, and someone hits you with a stick and now you're down a primary and have little to no understanding why. Some of the posts I've read on this forums have looked at trying to bring new players and and keep them which i think should be a priority as well. I don't want to step on any toes here but I'd like to keep in mind a newer player's experience when bringing in a class like this.

 

I said previously that I liked the class, and I do. But now that people have pointed out it's basically a "you got your items stolen? Respawn or go find a medic." You need a way to counter this class. Assassin, who forces you to respawn has to major flaws. One is blocking, and the other is that you die instantly to an attack. The Thief has no real drawbacks as such. So, what if you could only steal from someone, if you're behind them? You'd have to be stealthy, but it also makes it much harder to play, and gives it a direct counter.

On the front of this making new players leave because of the steep learning curve, we can't shun away from making new classes. Instead, mechanics must be implemented to allow them to have a better experience. I'm not saying make it easier for them, but allow them to have a better experience, or feel like they're making an impact.

 

What if you implement a new change which is that the player who got their items stolen by a thief could steal their stolen item back by hitting the thief x amount of times. Then it would make the thief class do what thieves in real life actually do; steal and run away. Or maybe they can get their items back after like 30 seconds or something.

 

...was this idea brainstormed from 5ive_Head's Heavy Rework idea by chance?

I think it's interesting to have an item swapping ability...whether it be for a whole new class or assigned as a change to an existing class, even if limited like in that Heavy Rework idea.

As for Thief, there are LOTS of variables and I have a ton of "What if?" questions about that easily complicate things.

First and foremost is the infamous Dwarf sword. Is it the Dwarf levels that make the weapon so deadly? Or is it the weapon itself? What if a Thief swaps a Dwarf sword? Will the Thief become a fast running juggernaut, or will the Dwarf have an ultra powerful wooden sword? Will they both miss out on all that built up level-gaining power?

What if a Thief swaps assassination powder? Is it the killing training that only Assassins have received that makes them kill in an instant, or is it the fact that they wield that mysterious red powder? If it's the powder, does the Thief become vulnerable after?

What if a Mage hoe is stolen? Will it cast the spell, and if so, with what cooldown meter? The one that may already be employed for that Assassination powder that was stolen before? What if arrows are stolen? HOW are arrows stolen? They're almost never held in hand, but if they were somehow obtained by a swap/steal action, would the entire stack become the wood sword? What about Elf arrows? Does the Elf no longer get any arrows at all, or do they replenish and replace that wooden sword? Would the Thief achieve renewable arrows instead? What about Ninja pearls? Engineer TNT? LOL What about the Archer's sword? Everyone knows Archers NEED their stone sword!

Again a very cool idea for the PvP and vanilla-friendly items, but when it comes to the class abilities that are intimately tied to the items they use then things get bizarre. Would redstone dust make a Thief invisible, or enable a Thief to Assassinate? If this is based on which class wields it rather than by some unique tag that only makes the two very different items only look the same, then there would be a ton more coding work to allow a Thief to join the fray.

Specifics can get lengthy, but if they're all mapped out then it paints a much better picture of what to expect of a Thief in greater detail. In short I like the concept and it would be a lot of fun to play, but I think there is just way too much complexity to have the deceivingly simple idea work properly.