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Idea Pyro Tweak

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by notfleb, Jun 6, 2020.

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  1. notfleb

    notfleb Well-Known Member

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    If you aren't on fire, a Pyro isn't really a threat until it gets a frenzy ready. All they have to do is get 4 hits on anyone and they have one of the most powerful abilities in CTF chilling in their hotbar. Players like @Codebastian have utilized this simple limit to its max, making very efficient use of the class in offensive scenarios. So, if Pyros can use fire with such crushing power, why is the road there so simple?

    For this tweak, you can still get a frenzy in 4 hits, but now your opponent has to be on fire. You still do increased damage while they are on fire, but if you hit a non-burning player or a medic, your frenzy bar does not increase. This would firstly combat "pocket frenzying" where an enemy with infinite healing sits in the flag room and gives the Pyro free frenzy; You now either force that player to use steak from the increased damage, wait significantly longer between regeneration periods, or get none at all in the case of a medic. The main goal of this tweak would be to encourage players to learn how to use Pyro to its fullest extent; The current meta relies almost entirely on just frenzies, with tactical burning really only being used by experienced players. Yes, other classes do have equally unbalanced cost-to-reward ratios for their abilities, but if we're being honest this would make almost no impact on the competitive scene. Medic would remain equally as powerful against Pyro, while also giving other classes a better chance when dealing with randoms that currently just walk around hitting people and frenzying whenever they can.
     
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  2. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    I sorta agree with this, but I think we need to change the way Pyro sets people on fire.

    Right now, flint and steel isn't very good for setting people on fire as it's a pain to aim and easy enough to avoid. It's also a boring, vanilla item which doesn't introduce anything interesting to Pyro. The bow isn't good for quickly setting people on fire since you need to pull it back all the way.

    I definitely think we should change Pyro so that there are several good ways for setting people on fire, but we should buff the existing alternatives to frenzy first before nerfing frenzy.
     
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  3. Recovs

    Recovs Unknown Member

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    I disagree with this. I think it's a good feeling you get when you place your fire from the flint and steel on the right blocks to catch someone with it. Definitely should not make it easier to set people on fire.
     
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  4. Rejeqted

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    Hey Forleb,
    I'm a rather new Pyro main. I wouldn't say that the meta relies almost only on frenzies or Pyros, of course Pyro is a must-have in bigger matches.
    I once was in a ppm where my team was Pyro-less, cause the other team's offense was mainly built by counter-pyro classes (Elf Medic ect.)
    Also, if you set a player on fire as Pyro, a swing from a medic is enough to shut down the flame.
    I would preferably change, that you would need to restore your player to remove the fire. The intention behind this is, that setting someone on fire would reward them high, since it is hard to ignite a split offensive group.
     
  5. notfleb

    notfleb Well-Known Member

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    Frenzy wouldn't change, you would just have to actually put effort in to get it lol. As far as alternate ways for setting people on fire quickly goes, I agree with Recovs seeing as this would not only make the tweak useless, but also innately allow Pyros to deal even more damage by default.

    I meant moreso in the case of there being a Pyro, not that Pyro controls the entire meta, my bad. Pyro is just one of those classes where literally anyone can hop on and snag free kills pretty much at will; Archer and Assassin both have a similar layout, but they only have their oneshot abilities to rely on, whereas Pyro is designed to be a build-up hybrid that can only nuke when you reach a certain point, the 4 hits. Experienced Pyros don't always portray this for the sake of time and simplicity, but making this change would make very little change in PPMs but make the casual QoL noticeably better.
     
  6. Zarpin

    Zarpin #1 6ᴏʙʙʏ ꜰᴀɴ & ʙʀᴀᴡʟ ᴠᴏᴛᴇʀ (◕︵◕)

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    Eh

    I think pyro is fine.
     
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    #6 Zarpin, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  7. Mhurdock

    Mhurdock Member

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    Let's be honest here, the reason behind this idea is that you can't kill a pyro. The class if fine.
     
  8. Codebastian

    Codebastian Well-Known Member

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    When the new version of pyro was introduced, the class turn from mainly defensive, to a class which now has offense opportunities. Since the change I've tried to try its new qualitative aspects for offense purposes to I guess try to become better at recovering and farm frenzy in general. leading to what I and other pyros have adapted to today.

    Flint has several purposes whether your main offense or defense, or in my case both. As Recovs said, placing flint is actually fun and the alternative to quickly light your opponent on fire knowing it takes a full bow charge to light the opponent on fire. On defense it is very valuable, making it damaging on the offense to quickly light a player on fire and deal 'fire damage'.

    I get the pocket frenzy which is in-fact what I do to farm frenzy and head for a recovery, but this I feel like needs to stay to still obtain that threat level while heading for a recovery. But I would love to hear input as to how it could be changed to keep it's threat level while not nerfing it that it makes removing stalemates even harder thing to achieve.

    If anything, while frenzy is powerful in casual, in competitive gameplay it becomes 'nullified', becoming more challenging for a pyro because everyone knows how to properly deal with a pyro. Further implying that if players became more familiar with it's counters, it becomes nerfed in its self in casual gameplay, but perhaps that's a reach.

    I wanted to reply on different points on this thread, but if I were to somehow nerf this it would be to perhaps limit flint somehow on offense but still great for defense, countering your pocket frenzy point.
     
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  9. _SnowyStorm_

    _SnowyStorm_ New Member

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    Gotta admit that the flint and steel is useless
     
  10. notfleb

    notfleb Well-Known Member

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    can't tell if this is sarcasm or your inner chad defending the only class you play that takes skill
     
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