Why CTF won't grow but rather slowly die.

I'll just leave these two threads here since they are similar in nature.

"CTF isn't evolving": https://www.brawl.com/threads/77434/
"The Survivial of CTF": https://www.brawl.com/threads/77549/


I have clearly been a proponent of change to "make CTF great again!" (half joking there). Although, Zerna brought up good points of dual CTF game modes and pointed out the fact servers/games similar to CTF are declining as well. I personally believe there is a lack of attention/care for some game modes on Brawl lately. The only concrete responses given were on the first linked thread. Other than that, not much has come of these discussions (or so it seems). That has to change first if we want the server to be better and stay lively.

 

been a while, but i feel like this is worth chiming in on

the fact that we're down to 7 teams already is a bit of a red flag on its own, but when you consider that this time of the year is also when activity hits it peak, it becomes much more concerning. if this is what the community is able to produce in optimal conditions, then the decline from here is going to be very sharp.

i tried preaching my heart out on everything i could think of to change things up for CTF, giving feedback on anything i saw potential in, even my meme staff campaign - and far less has improved than i'd hoped. it's not about me being unable to single handedly save the server; it's more that there were very few people that had that kind of determination (or showed it at least) to begin with. i've thought long and hard on this gamemode for two soul crushing years straight, and now there really just doesn't seem to be a final remedy. brawl is in a hole that it can't dig itself out of without several miracles, and the window for said miracles to appear is very narrow.

 

I do want to acknowledge today's significant influx in players and what was experienced with that.

- We had a full server today and around 90 players online at one point. I cannot personally remember that occurring recently.
- Reason? It seemed many minigame servers (ie Hypixel) experienced a DDoS.
1. This likely means Brawl/CTF is still on many people's server list
2. Interest does still exist
- Aside from an influx of players using Brawl as back-up, more people likely joined due to gameplay with a full server.
- Some blatant issues were displayed with this increase today:
1. Notable comments on the removal of previous class features. Players clearly missed what CTF used to be.
2. Comments on the complete lack of competitiveness in a few games
3. Noticed some discussion as to the lack of change.
4. The increased player count was clearly a surprise to many which is unfortunate.
- Non-regulars became targeted. Noted one instance of a couple players switching teams to focus on killing a few people.

My view point? Interest in Brawl CTF clearly exists but the complete lack of attention and meaningful changes have killed what CTF once was. Today was proof of this. Players miss the competitive gameplay and some of the "OP" features. To that point, when those two things did exist, having high player counts were regularly apparent as well. Not hard to put two-and-two together here, although it is becoming hard to even expect feedback, let alone meaningful changes/ideas, on these important topics.

EDIT: With the fact that these related topics are viewed as a joke sometimes, Brawl CTF may be better off left alone. Clearly these discussions aren't getting anywhere which is a sad fact.

 

let it die, let it die, let it shrivel up and die

 

They're viewed as a joke because they are rarely ever focused on. This server functions in part by the chain of connections that nearly every higher-up has with each other; If something isn't significant to one, it will at least not be readily brought up to the others, and will most likely not grab their interest either. The focus is set on advertising, and by god is paper launching one hell of a drug. putty favored the concept of staying corporately neutral regardless of the condition of any of Brawl's assets, and for some reason that hasn't changed despite two new faces replacing him... Some form of breaking away needs to occur for any of this to have the impact it should.

Regarding the rest of your post:
There have been countless people before this week that had Brawl on their server list and don't now; The only difference here is the sheer volume, which could potentially act as a reservoir that assists in boosting the player count to a consistently higher number. However, an overwhelming majority of these players have never logged onto Brawl or MCPVP before, and are/will be either instantly confused beyond repair, or unmotivated to return because of the changes. The chain of connections I mentioned above exists (and thrives) directly in response to the fact that competitive CTF has virtually no outlets. Aside from the 5v5 winners in the lobby, your only chance of even knowing there's a different part of the server is if someone invites you directly, or you investigate messages in casual like "sign for PPM". Given enough time, I believe many new players would just use the /discord link and discover everything for themselves, but the environment on casual is literally so crushing and toxic that they log off before they even get the thought.



The issue at the source of all of this is the stark white line between casual and comp. Becoming invested in one almost guarantees you'll dislike the other, but 99% of players don't even get that option. People think it would be awkward to open up PPMs and such directly to the rest of the server because it "throws things off" when their only reference is having a single random try to fit in with 23 regs - yes, it's going to be very awkward if that's the only change. Making the smallest exception possible will not alter the way people think something should work. If you put a single chocolate chip in your ice cream, that isn't going to get you anywhere; You have to add enough to make it its own variant, and brand it as such. The name Player Pool Match is quite pretentious when approximately 3 randoms play them every month. I still like to use diamondgirl25 as the shining example of what can happen if people actually give a **** about spreading their arms beyond just other teams - It's one of the inspirations that lead to me making Team Fallen, and while I don't doubt that other teams would have picked up a few of the players we have, It's likely that many would have been ignored entirely. This barrier in comp needs to have significantly more openings than it currently does if we want natural growth in the community.

 

I have felt over the years CTF has evolved, there is a feel of deathmatch aspect. There are some amazing features to some classes in my opinion, however when does adding more water to a glass that's already full become apparent?

I do feel the server has lost numbers, but I also think it has increased in a way, hear me out.

I feel, it's not actually about Capturing the flag and it feels more of a deathmatch. I for one, I barely cap... I go on because I like to improve my accuracy as Archer. Perhaps if the feature of "Pay To Win" so to speak was removed, so you had the basic classes, we'd go back to playing how it was played at MCPVP. That's why it did so well... the headshots were in proportion, but now because the player count as significantly increased in archers, you can't even leave spawn without getting headshot.

I think it's preposterous players can stand 30 blocks just from spawn and be able to headshot. That shouldn't be happening, it shouldn't be allowed. It goes back to the whole, Engineer class where you could place a turret in-front of the spawn door so no-one can get out.

I do have beliefs about making games fair, but when players in the game, who contribute to the loss of players, complaining about a class constantly and never talk about anything else, is rather boring. However, I do sometimes understand the point with ninjas/assassins/mages. I feel those classes are not designed for CTF, Ninjas are too quick and being a beginner or a returning player like myself who hasn't picked MC up in about 1 year or so... comes to ninjas with incredible knockback, you can't hit them. This is what I call frustrating. It beats the object of the game... an archer you can approach much easier than a Ninja.

I would like to partially agree with the above discussed and it feels more of Deathmatch than CTF as it feels when I go on, the only object is to kill the opposing side. There's hints in a way that tell you the objective... but it is more deathmatch than CTF now.

I don't know whether people will agree that if it was completely set vanilla with the original classes with the original idea... it possibly could work. But then, you all have to factor in, people have spent money on new classes, so you can't expect Admins to click their fingers and change over night. There's always been more to consider than people think.

 

Here's a crazy idea; bring CTF back home yeah I said it. Sorry featherpaw, yin, it's time to go back to our roots. Go back to Munchy no seriously I'm not joking.

I don't necessarily agree, this CTF is outstanding from any other servers because of its' class-based take. If the problem is that players are so confused when they join for the first time and end up leaving, then we should implement a tutorial of sorts, that allows them to trial each of the kits in a separate area and learn about the mechanics of the game and the aspects of each kit. But I don't think this is the primary reason. There's a learning curve to most games right?

Don't be so quick to judge your own success based off the success of another's. Look inward, there's still options for CTF. Like moving to Munchy

 

Oh hey Cattech! Long time no see! I started on Brawl, so brawl is kinda my roots, but I see where you're coming from lmao.

Personally, I never understood why CTF was so much more popular than other servers (party excluding, but player retention on party is non-existent). I believe, now, that it might be held up as a nostalgic gamemode. People come back to CTF because they played it before, or played something like it before. It doesn't offer anything new to new players like parkour, strong pvp roots, or survival, but it offers nostalgia and a sense of community to older players. If we can replicate that for new players we may be able to keep some for longer. However, I have no idea how to go about doing that. xD sorry

 

ngl for ctf staff need to listen alot more to ideas first of all. there are so many players have come up with and almost none of them are ever added. There are alot of ways to make the game more enjoyable and i think the proper steps are being taken.

 

Adding onto what Tom said, one thing that is absolutely overlooked about CTF is the relative scaling between the complexity of the community and the gamemode. Hypixel has several hundred times the population of Brawl, which innately gives them far less freedom to pick and choose what any one person says. CTF has managed to evolve into the state it's in now because this community is so tightly knit that many voices were heard, and many of them have traded positions of power to enact the changes themselves; Hypixel has no such framework. Their gamemodes are only kept as "advanced" as the general public thinks they should be - and if you're overseeing well over a million people each month, you'll want to keep them happy. That means cutting down on your end to make ends meet. Brawl is on the opposite end of the spectrum, where instead the players are forced to sprint towards adapting to CTF. If they can't learn fast enough, they just get left out a quit - just as Hypixel would crash and burn if they tried creating anything remotely as dense as CTF.

 

Partially agree with this. Hypixel is not the reason for Brawl's decline. Look at The Hive for instance (RIP). They were consistently seeing thousands of players online despite Hypixel's existence. Why? Well I really do not know, though I'd guess it is due to differentiation in gameplay. The primary reason servers see significant downfall is generally lack of attention. In my lengthy history on an array of different servers, those that die typically stagnate and fade off. Meaningful changes, engagement, freshness and a focus on keeping interest alive keep servers intact. What Brawl, and CTF particularly, has done is the opposite. Little meaningful changes and attention to player discussion. Rather, we have an older game mode that sees little evolution (aside from "nerfing" classes and rotating maps). Assigning a reason for decline to another server's success is not appropriate when discussing ways to improve retention.



Getting to the topic of learning curves, yes every game has a learning curve. Though, if someone is interested enough, they will take some time to learn it. Unfortunately, as a new player in Brawl CTF, it is a stressful experience. Handful of different classes, lack of knowledge of competition and often times newbies are targeted by regulars to the point anyone would rage quit. I also noticed issue expressed with headshotting into map spawn areas. To my knowledge deliberate spawn camping, targeting and trucing is not allowed, but largely are treated as acceptable. Unfortunately as a new player, potentially experiencing this in a game mode promoting itself as competitive is another turn off. Again though, seeing comments when Hypixel was down, is is apparent that many players missed old CTF gameplay.

Quick edit: Seeing 0 players online in the evening (EST) should be of concern. I understand holiday weekends, but clearly the main issue making CTF/Brawl tank is an evident lack of attention/support.
These posts are doing absolutely nothing to change the trajectory of the server. It is 100% apparent and feels like a complete waste of time making suggestions/comments. I feel like these topics are like screaming at brick walls. If nothing changes soon, CTF will die off eventually.

 

Other servers thrive because they design their games to function well without any upper intervention (aside from cheaters ofc), and currently CTF falls very far out of this category.
• Bedwars: oh we all have beds. oh we can buy stuff to get to other beds. oh there are upgrades. cool.
• Duels: oh it's an actual controlled environment. oh the kits are very straightforward. cool.
• Factions: oh i'm on this big team now. oh we have to make money. oh we need a base to protect our money. cool.
• Brawl CTF: HEYYYyyyy bud we got 30 maps everybody hates & 15 classes with single line descriptions! wanna 5v1 every 30 seconds while the rest of your team sits and chats? how about some official team invasions?? maybe even CLASS STACKING

I'm sure somebody will find a way to debate my exaggeration, but I'm honestly not going far.

MCPVP made their game in the era where there weren't really any standards for keeping things stable. 10 years later, it seems putty never caught onto what everyone else was doing (for CTF), and Sheep & Ritzy have yet to show deviation from this stagnation. Competitive CTF walks a very thin line of stability, supported by staff members & trusted players that essentially run everything DIY. MCCTF wasn't designed to function properly in 2021, and little has been done to adapt it into an acceptable first pick for players. It's impressive that comp has come as far as it has, but there should be no surprise in realizing that focusing all your manpower on the part of the game that's completely divided from mainstream is going to cause major problems for said mainstream portion.

 

On the subject of dying, it seems every break from CTF I take lower average player counts exist. Seems like sub-20 players is normal now. Nothing appears to be changing. Everything has stagnated to a cliquey community with poor gameplay. It is sad. At this rate, CTF should not be around much longer.

 

Creating new modes when others have errors/bugs/glitches is a very bad solution