#leavectfalone

None of the classes will be truly balanced. Different people with different skill levels will think differently, and that can make certain classes insanely OP. I can tell you from experience most chemists are insanely easy to kill as any class, as long as you know how to kite the initial potion spam. The devs are trying their best to keep things balanced for everyone, so cut them some slack while things are still in beta.

 

No, Like said above, you will never really be able to balance the classes fully without actually ruining them or making them boring.

 

how about git gud
chemists are only really OP if given to a good player
and isn't that incentive to git gud?

 

Biased poll is biased.
Instakills are OP. Try playing against an instakill class for once. Pyro is much more OP than chemist

 

Against the average chemist, maybe.
Key word=Average

 

Sometimes in life the easy way out isn't the best. So instead of leaving several overpowered classes to be overpowered for the sake of countering each other, why don't we just fix them all?

 

I hope this doesn't turn into another instakill thread where the conversation degenerates into who likes and who doesn't like instakills. We've got many threads for that already.

In response to the actual topic at hand, there are inevitably going to be bits and pieces where change is needed. Talking about chemist, it is undeniable that you can potspam like no tomorrow. Whilst change is needed to tweak a few things, we do have to remember however that a lot of very skilled pvpers use chemist, and we shouldn't let those people skew our way of thinking. If you really want balance, which by the way is virtually impossible to achieve, you need to look at is as if everyone is at the same skill level. People believe that some classes are more overpowered because they see more very skilled players use the class than other classes. As an example, there are a lot more skilled chemists than skilled mages, and it's just the class they choose to play. It doesn't mean that if used right, mage is a really good class (take a look at chikincows). At the end of the day, the power of the class itself has a part to play, but never underestimate the people that play it

 

All classes are OP in the hands of a pro.

 

But most of the chemists I see are mlg pros...

 

^ are you referring to the players playing chemist MLG pros, or the chemist class itself making them MLG pros. In this case, since you're saying "most" of the chemists you see are MLG pros, I'm going to assume it's the players as there are players playing chemist which are obviously not pros. In that case, it's not the class that's a problem, it's just the fact that there are some very good people playing chemist!

 

The players playing chemist (for the most part) are MLG pros.
Being an MLG pro is skill based. A class dosen't directly cause skill to magically appear.

 

In order to re make pyro, you would have to first do a rework on chemist. They're many things that can go wrong if you rework pyro before chemist.

 

Exactly what LordCh40s said.... there are quite a few MLG players that main a single class. And when facing that individual player, you would think that their class is OP. Though, it's not the class that's necessarily OP, but it's the player him/herself.
However, this of course doesn't mean that tweaks/changes are not needed.

 

Pyro is much more OP than chemist.

 

I agree with minebrick. Insta-kills are only OP when given to the right player. I do play against insta-kills on a regular basis, and I still only come out with a max of 4 deaths per game. I'm an archer, so archer battles are a regular thing for me. All it takes to beat an insta-killer is practice. Believe me, being an archer isn't as easy as it looks, and being a pyro/assassin is IMPOSSIBLE for me. To beat a pyro: Go medic, find water, or just run. To beat an assassin: Block (seriously, it's not that hard -.-), and when you are capping, do F5 every once and a while. To beat an archer: Stand behind a wall, it's no rocket science.

Also, CinemaSins reply is CinemaSins

 

Anyone but an utter noob can master pyro. Pyro slows down people with its fire, making an instakill easy to execute even at a distance. Now, for capturing: Going medic seems like a good idea, but anyone else in the flagroom and your chances are lowers substantially. Medic has pretty bad armor, and a ninja will rip it to peices. Finding water also slows you down when capturing substantially. Water physically slows you as well as you having to run wild looking for water slowing you. Essentially, in the midfeild, sure, you can avoid them. In the flagroom? Oh hell no.

 

So basically your logic is: don't make changes to one broken class (pyro) because other classes will have to be changed so they aren't broken.

What? How is that a reason why not to change Pyro? Or the game in general? If broken classes were fixed then the game might just be improved!

 

The amount of times that MLG is used to describe a CTF player here is too much.

But anyway, what i taking out of this is if you change one class then you have to change others. CTF has fallen into a rift and all the classes (mostly) fit well together. So chaning one is like taking the bottom apple out of the pyramid of fruit.

Still classes need changes but do not nerf one without nerfing another, or buffing one without buffing the other. Thats how counters work.

 

Instakills are OP when given to ANYONE, because 2 of them take no skill(pyro and assassin). Archer may take more skill than pyro, but that doesn't make it balanced. Not everyone wants to do /medic to take out that one flag camping pyro. Not every map has water, and even if every map DID have water, it would be slow to rush towards the water/ Blocking is ping-based, and pressing f5 a lot is annoying. You can't stand behind a wall the whole time. Try playing something other than an instakill class for once. Players like you are the reason why CTF is still broken.