Idea Support Chemist Rework

Tbh i like all of it but the short strength / speed but good rework c:

 

+1 imo, we need more support classes and this really looks good, maybe some longer speed / strenght?

 

I love the rework, but Chac, where's the independence? You can't strictly make a class focus on a single roll unless that roll applies to the class in a multi-purpose way. For example, the reason putting Medic as a support based class worked because the class can utilize that healing capability in several ways, such as being able to help flag carriers, support defensive players and have those epic Medic teams that everyone finds hilarious. Alright the issue is, Chemist as a supportive class wouldn't be able to have the same healing and supportive capabilities of a Medic. A Chemist could support teammates, but it wouldn't necessarily be able to to give them a supportive enough boost that it makes the class appealing, while I'd utilize the buffs that the class would give me from a teammate, I don't really think that teammate would be able to use that "all-roundedness" that Chemist has been known for.. for well, ever. The ability to cap, restore, defend and support made the class interesting and useful to people who were confident in their hotbars skillZ.

 

dafek is this reworkXDDD

 

Hi,

I think chemist should keep the insane health pool with the 10 instand heal III´s, but the potspam ability should be nerved, aka debuffs have a larger cooldown. The other things are great!

Very creative and useful idea.

 

It also made the class stupidly OP.

Chemist still has multiple roles, it can easily use its buffs for itself to act as a less potent offensive rushdown without damage pots as well as a supporter. It still has plenty of its independence intact

 

Nice rework, even I get confused with too many potions... the potions you did not list are pretty useless and too offensive.

 

I honestly feel that the issue is, while the other classes was nerfed the Chemist class was just left alone for the most part and shuffled around a bit. It makes an awful lot more sense (if we're still all stuck on this "nerfing saves the day" ideology), to take the class and weaken a majority of it's potions, not change it's roll, you know?

I definitely see what you're saying though, potspamming buffed Chemists aren't fun.

 

No.
Chemist can do everything exceptionally well even though Chemist was meant to be a support class. It needs to be nerfed in its versatility because right now Chemist is the answer to all issues especially with the recent Ninja nerf to its sword damage.

As Chac mentioned, people have voted for a supportive Chemist as well.

 

Fair enough, I feel like with the "chess like balance" that's being created between classes, versatility is useful. I'll take your word for it, though.

 

I am a fan of versatility as well but Chemist excels in everything too much. Ninja was/kinda is a versatile class as well but at the same time suffered from many issues that made it balanced enough to not be obviously OP. This rework does focus on support but it doesn't tie Chemist down as a support class since I can still use the potions to defend, cap, or recover on my own.

 

But didn't you think Ninja-- eh.. I forget to stay on topic sometimes, sorry.. I just feel like catching up.
Honestly Tenshi, we both know I haven't been here for a century, so I trust your judgement anyday over mine, I just feel like the rock-paper-scissor matchups such as ninja vs. pyro vs. heavy made the game appealing, and made the versatility and neutrality of Chemist really appealing, but I guess I can see how me using the word "appealing" is leaving "OP" out of the picture.

 

Tbh, this chemist could still be viable in every role, it would just be a lot harder then it is now.

 

Opinion is shifting away from hard counters ever since you left so its obvious your ideas wouldn't match with the current discussion. I don't remember what I believed about Ninja when you were around but my opinion has evolved rapidly.

Most players want a fairer game with less hard counters but still wish for instakills to be intact for some reason, I am one of the few who believes instakills are a detriment to the game as balancing them requires making instakills so hard that it borders uselessness.

Hard counters are appealing to those who win the rock paper scissors match, those who lose feel much less happy.

Currently, Mage and Chemist are some of the most versatile classes around and Chemist takes versatility and perfects it. This perfection is too much in CTF because of how most classes only excel in a few roles compared to Chemist.

I don't know if you've caught up to the recent changes yet, if you do you can always check out the Class page of the CTF Wiki that I've (shameless plug) made:

https://www.brawl.com/wiki/ctf-classes/

If I can recall, Ninja and Engineer have been nerfed whilst a new class called Elf was added in your absence. a Pyro and Chemist change are hinted to be coming once CTF is out of beta as well as a new free class called Scout.

 

@Chactation I don't know if you were inferring that the community was heavily in favor of a support role for Chemist but I just wanted to point out that just because the majority of 22 votes in the poll stated that they wanted a support Chemist does not actually mean that most people do. It's obvious that the community wants a nerf - and justifiably so - but I just wanted to point that bit about the poll out

As for this rework I really liked a lot of things about it. The best thing about this rework is that it really does a great job making Chemist a support class without making it too weak to be particularly useful.

The ability for Chemist to counter Pyro's instant kill by giving allies fire resistance was a stroke of brilliance and I tip my hat off to you for that.
I don't remember who suggested the 'persistent potions' idea before this thread but again another nice way of encouraging a support role.
I see where you were going with the reduced times on the potions. I agree that was definitely necessary. Now Chemist can't just give buffs and suddenly there's a bunch of Heavies running around with Strength I for 3 minutes. I also liked how the reduced times worked with the persistent potions as the potion effects don't last as long but the duration is no longer effected by the splash radius so you'll always get the full buff effect.

I also like how Chemist can actually be countered by Ninjas and Heavies now through the removal of the damage and poison potions. Currently neither Heavy nor Ninja can counter Chemist because the damage and poison (especially the poison) massively deplete their small health pools. With this Chemist its damage (and health) pool is greatly nerfed so it actually has to fight Heavy and Ninja rather than pot spam them to death. Speaking of potspam, I love how you removed all the damage/poison potions as it hugely reduces Chemist's ridiculous area damage and damage output in general which is great for the game.

My favorite thing about your rework though is that it encourages teamwork. Everyone in this topic knows that Chemist can do virtually everything in the game and do all of those things quite well. The awesome thing about this rework is that it takes away Chemist's ability to do all of that. It therefore makes Chemist dependent on its team-mates through the buffs and focuses Chemist on aiding allies to obtain objectives rather than pot-spamming damage and poison potions all the way to the flag room.

@bostonbruins1251 Chemist is basically just an armored Ninja atm, with damage potions, poison potions, and 3 minute strength and swiftness potions. You're right its fun but unbalanced. However this rework doesn't make Chemist a boring class that does no damage and MASSIVELY improves its relationship with the other classes so that it's not so damn hard to fight someone playing the class. Thus, I think that although Chemist wouldn't be quite as fun to play it would be more enjoyable to play classes that are currently harshly countered by it.
@obikenobi21 Pretty much right although its power is massively decreased.

+1

 

I love it +2 million. Absolutely makes chemist viable and keeps it a support class.
@Colonel_Graff

 

How not so? It can still cap by using the fire res, buffs, and weakness/slow potions, along with its improved armor and its 5 heal pots. The slow pots and buffs also allow it to defend well, and of course, it has great support. A skilled chemist can still rek people, it just cant do it as well. This chemist can support itself, not just others.

 

Okay I see what you're saying. I do think it is far more difficult to wreck people without the damage and poison potions though, which only makes sense as this is Chemist is supposed to be support oriented.

 

Chemist never should have been about wrecking people. That's like a medic wrecking people. Almost unheard of.
Edit: Agreeing with Munson. Not refuting his point. Why would you think that ?