Why pyro is currently unbalanced

I completely agree, I barely die to ninjas anymore.

 

orrrr, a free counter

 

so true

 

Just for the record, @Quarrelt managed to get a 43 ks in under 15 minutes on the all-star yesterday.

 

end the suffering

 

I had a 19ks in about 10 mins. I definitely think pyro needs a new counter, buffed heavies were dealing more damage to me than the ninjas >:L

 

Preach it brother.......

 

ya but this thread will just get ignored like every other reasonable thread about pyro

 

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I definitely agree taking out any counter to pyros a negative, but on the other hand I don't think buffed ninjas should be the only way of taking out a pyro in a match situation (assuming the pyro has a medic with them on def, which they will, and ninjas to kill assassins).

Ninja killing pyro in 2 hits is essentially a pyro instakill (arguably, sword+sword is even easier than bow+sword). So if we're trying to get every class to have a fighting chance, I don't think allowing the current core of any defense in matches to be essentially instakilled is going to be good for gameplay. I was around for the buffed ninja two-shot time, and I'm around now, and I can attest that matches (at least from my point of view) have changed for the better - unless you enjoy having both teams crowding a soldier as a stalemate for the majority of the game.

Cappers, in matches, still make it out of a flagroom. Send someone to distract the pyro. Get an assassin in. As someone who's been playing a lot of ninja recently, it's definitely a class that isn't in urgent need for a buff, especially one that increases DPS.

And this doesn't solve pyro's general OPness in normal games. You don't get a lot of buffed ninjas in a normal CTF match. Why add a counter that only gets used in match scenarios? I'd opt for just weakening pyro overall.

But realistically it's probably easier to buff ninja swords than listen to community members and rework the damn class, so it looks like this is probably the direction the staff will take, if any. I'm just not a fan of countering an instakill class by adding another way to essentially instakill the instakill class, when there already is one (assassin). If the instakill is the root problem, which it is, remove the damn instakill.

 

agree with you apart from this. in the allstar match quar got a 43 ks and 37 ks and cliff got a ks above 40 (cant remember what it was) as pyro. i don't think anyone on our offense or on their offense found it fun to constantly die to them.

you also you seem to be suggesting that if pyros can be killed then it'll automatically mean that soldiers are always going to get out and it will always be a stalemate but i don't agree with that at all. if you can 2 shot pyros then it just means you have to strategise defense more and the other defensive classes actually have to work together to defend. in most matches i have played in the leaders just assign everyone a role on defense and then that's it, no one is told what to do with their role. when we (TT) played DF in the tourney match we had b0s and will target link for the entire game and he didn't cap. we didn't need a pyro to stop him, we just needed some degree of coordination and teamwork from our other defensive players and we managed to stop one of the best cappers from capping at all.

 

As someone in the ~300 ping club, I really don't know how easy it is to play pyro in matches for most people, but for me it's pretty stressful - if I'm not on my guard ninjas will often kill me, even with a 3-hit. So I won't argue the killstreaks point as I have no experience in the matter (AFAIK, the two examples you listed have pretty good ping).

Right now, most teams I've played have most of their problems with a pyro defending. You can already send in a medic to distract the pyro, buff the soldier so the pyro can't catch up. My only issue with having ninja able to two-shot a pyro is that it's pretty much unpreventable. You can watch out for assassins and kill them before they reach the pyro. You can't do the same for a ninja (unless you're mage and you bombard your friendly pyro with spells).

I just think it isn't great for gameplay if you have an unpreventable kill on the pyro every time your defence comes in - if so, the pyro may as well not be there. But I'm aware I might be wrong - I've never played offence in a match, so you're probably a lot more knowledgeable about this whole thing than I am.

 

if a defense can't survive without a pyro for a maximum of twenty seconds then it's not a defense imo

 

on Blackout btw.

 

I agree. Although Pyro was pretty unbalanced before the Ninja sword nerf.

^^ Preach it muffles

Agreed but every time I or others suggest it and argue for it half the community jumps on the thread and repeatedly presents this infallible counter argument:

 

James made a good point in the DF chat he basically said - that since soldier loses it's helmet when capping, if ninja went back to sharp 6 or w/e and was able to 2 shot a pyro, he told me that you can still 2 shot a soldier when buffed, which would still be op. So either be able to 2 shot a soldier as ninja and pyro or just combo a pyro and kill him and soldier will still have a chance to cap.

 

Make Medics do 2x damage to Pyros as well as no idea-kill?