Hardcore Games Revamp Ideas

So what? We're interested in reviving HG, not SoupPvP. I feel like this is a mistake and you meant to say "HG would not exist without SoupPvP" so I'll also say my thoughts in that. When HG grew on McPvP, players did not know how to soup. Back in the days of people jumping backwards for a second to soup was when new players would stay and play HG for longer than one game. The movies were also quite new then which obviously helped its growth, but if every new player just quit after one game (which is happening now), then it'd never have grown into the phenomenon that it grew in to.

On the other hand, when players started getting good at souping, that's when HG started to decline. Now I know this correlation isn't complete, solid evidence that souping killed HG but its the best explanation I've got. And when McPvP tried no soup, no soup had much better player retention than soup HG did.

Running no-soup HG and soup HG side-by-side is what "split the community", which is why I want HG to only be no soup. Then, this will no longer be an issue.

We don't have regulars/veterans in the first place. The only exception now is one person, and they don't even check the forums. We can't let the playerbase of one person stop us from implementing a change which may improve player retention and could cause us to improve the game for hundreds.

It takes months for a new player to learn how to soup. And, in order to win a game now, you're practically required to know how to soup, unless you want to tower or trap (which are boring strategies which could take cause games to last nearly an hour, and no new player is going to sit in a tower or tiny cave in the ground when they could've played 10 games of bedwars in that time).

A tutorial won't help. Sure, new players will know how to soup, but they still won't be able to do it. Hotkeying, quickdropping and refilling fast enough takes a lot of practice to do, and new players aren't going to find the hook until they're able to soup.

Passive resistance could cause an issue too. Firstly, unless its an OP amount of resistance, new players still won't be able to soup fast enough in the first place. As well as this, you're suggesting giving them resistance for the first few games: it takes at the very least a few weeks to practice souping enough to be good enough at it.

No Soup HG only split up the community because we had Soup and No Soup on at the same time. I'm hoping we'll just be having No Soup now.

Also, perhaps its not best for the community. But the HG community is now SimpleHG's community. The old regulars who'd play HG no longer play Brawl, and refraining from updating the gamemode because of people who don't even play anymore just doesn't make sense. I do have plans to revive traditional HG but in order for that to happen, we need a gamemode which actually has players in the first place.

The community which doesn't play anymore?

Reinforcing your opinion as fact is the perfect way to make any discussion you're involved in an absolute waste of time.

I disagree, but I'd be interested to hear you expand upon this. Which kits are bad for no soup HG and why?

The reason for HG declining is not "common knowledge". No-one really knows for sure why HG declined, as there's many different ideas that are being thrown around. However, HG's playerbase was declining well before late 2014 and well before no soup HG was added. There's just no link between that. McPvP's intentions were to make the game noob-friendly and it succeeded in that - No Soup HG had better player retention than Soup HG. However, it wasn't able to stop the playerbase from declining because more old players were leaving. But, old players were leaving much longer before No Soup HG was added so I don't think its linked at all.

HG players didn't have to adapt to No Soup HG, because they could just keep on playing Soup. Yes, HG was unique back then because of soup, but being unique can lead to problems. No new players knew how to soup because HG was one of the few servers back then which had soup, and as a result, it had crappy player retention.

There's no reason for this to result in a drop in player counts. Any old players would simply keep on playing Soup HG. But, as Soup HG was still flawed and was getting boring (after all, there's been no major updates to HG in my opinion, ever), old players were leaving Soup HG anyways. No Soup HG had better player retention, I believe its @ldr_chicken who said this and he knew all the stats.

The difference is, McPvP had 700-1000 HG players when they implemented No Soup HG. We know have the grand total of 1 player who I see regularly playing.

You're not the first person who's suggested adding UHC. I just think this is counter-intuitive - we're trying to reduce the skill cap between people who know how to soup and people who don't know how to soup. But, by adding UHC, the heart of competitive PvP in Minecraft, surely we'd just be making the game more skill-based and competitive? I'm not a regular UHC player so I don't know too much about this, let me know if I'm wrong.

We don't have any existing players in the first place.

Agreed with almost all of this other than adding other SG elements in. I think HG could easily come back without being like SG, and I have a few ideas. I'll be posting them when I have time to finish them all up, AKA when my exams are over.

The only thing that'll stop some of these being added is that we don't have a developer. Lowering the borders and adding a starting feast (probably) won't take too much time, but I think changing terrain control and adding structures would be too much work for us to beg a retired dev to do.

Your first metaphor is completely inaccurate. Taking the basketball away from a basketball game is like taking PvP away from HG. HG doesn't rely on souping to become popular (after all, when HG grew on McPvP, no-one knew how to soup). People don't want to practice souping for months in order to play HG, because most new players will play for about 10 minutes then leave if they don't like it. Times change.

Being good at party doesn't involve a learning curve which takes months of practice.

If by differently, you mean not at all, then you're probably right.

Spot on. And, as the people who have experience with the game don't even play the game anymore, its hard to justify not implementing something to improve the game for new players simply because people with experience don't like the idea of it. The community of HG doesn't play anymore. If this change meant every community player doesn't play HG anymore, we wouldn't lose any players.

 

We can't hold back a possible revival just because of one player. We can't compete with Simple unless we make the gamemode different - otherwise, we'll just by a copy of Simple but without 1.7, with much smaller games, longer wait times and less servers. HG will never be revived unless we're willing to make HG different. If we're not willing to do that, we might as well just shut it down now.

I know you're not a fan of removing souping, but I've yet to be convinced by your reasoning. See above - HG needs to be different or it'll remain dead for as long as we have a competitor, which will be a while.