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Idea Necro Rework 2.0

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by GalaThundR, Jul 18, 2017.

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  1. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

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    Ok don't get me wrong, the new necro is by far much better than the old one. But currently, its ability is still just far too weak for practical use. The mob AI is dumb, their damage is pretty insignificant, and you don't have good control over the mobs. This rework is to make necro more versatile and useful while incorporating fun elements to fight alongside your mobs.
    _______
    Armor:

    Iron Helmet
    Gold Chestplate
    Iron Leggings
    Iron Boots.
    _______
    Inventory:
    #2 - Diamond Pickaxe (Sharpness 1)
    #2 - Golden Sword
    #3 - 5 Steak
    #4 - Zombie Egg
    #5 - Skeleton Egg (Bow, [Power 2])
    #6 - Blaze Egg (Firecharge)
    #7 - (Blank/5 arrows)
    #8 - Compass
    #9 - Nether star
    ________
    Abilities:

    • #1 - Zombies
    (Zombie egg will receive an enchantment glint indicating it is in use)

    When right clicking the zombie egg, 2 zombies will spawn on either side of the player. These zombies will follow the player anywhere they go. They are applied with strength 1 and will fight alongside the player while doing 4.5 hearts of damage per hit. (Not true damage) When one or both of these zombies are killed, they will respawn next to the player after 3 seconds.
    The zombies will attack whatever player the necro attacks and will retreat back to the necro if the enemy is 5 blocks away from them.
    Zombies will have 15 hearts of health.

    • #2 - Skeletons
    (Skeleton egg will receive an enchantment glint indicating it is in use)

    When right clicking the skeleton egg, 2 skeletons will spawn on either side of the player. Any other spawned mobs will instantly be killed. The skeleton egg will turn into a bow with power 2; skeleton's also have power 2 applied to their bows. These skeletons will fight alongside the player with their bows. Whenever the necro shoots an arrow, the skeletons will also shoot at the exact same time as the necro in the same direction, allowing the player to shoot 3 arrows at once. When one or both of these skeletons are killed they will respawn next to the player after 5 seconds.
    The necro gains 5 arrows in its 7th slot when skeletons are selected. 1 arrow will be lost every time the necro shoots their bow. (Skeleton's arrows do not count) These arrows regenerate at the rate of Medic's webs.
    Skeletons have 10 hearts of health.

    • #3 - Blazes
    (Blaze egg will receive an enchantment glint indicating it is in use)

    When right clicking the blaze eggs, 2 blazes will spawn on either side of the player. These blazes will fight alongside the player. Any other spawned mobs will instantly be killed. When selected, the blaze egg will turn into a firecharge. When right clicking the fire charge, both blazes will shoot a fireball in the direction the player was looking at. Upon landing, each fireball will cause a miniature explosions that will set any player in a 3x3 radius of it on fire for 3 seconds and do 2.5 heart of true damage. If the necro directly hits a player with a fireball, the player who is shot will receive 5.5 hearts of true damage and bet set on fire for 5 seconds. When one or both of the blazes are killed, they will respawn next to the player after 8 seconds.
    Fireballs have a cooldown of 5 seconds per shot. The xp bar will indicate the cooldown similar to mage's spells.
    Blazes have 5 hearts of health.
    .
    Players cannot have 2 mobs selected at the same time.
    All mobs have speed 2.

    I feel like this version of Necro will make it a very fun and enjoyable class with many different strategies. It will make it useful in the recovery, defense, and offensive roles. There's also no waiting for better mobs over time, so you can just do /necro and unleash havoc with your mob army!
    Tell me what you think!
     
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    #1 GalaThundR, Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  2. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
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    its better, but not much better

    There's more wrong with it than that ^^ but sure

    Gold sword w/sharpness < diamond pick w/sharpness

    why are you nerfing necro's melee weapon?

    5 steaks is 1 steak more than 4. why are you making Necro less tanky

    This damage is way too low.

    The control mechanics on mobs that you're suggesting are kinda cool and reminiscent of how old Necro worked (mobs follow you around everywhere). However, you have still not addressed the issue of zombies being useless. Instead, they are even more useless in this rework as you can't buff them. All they do is act as a constant body shield around Necro, rather than doing any damage (plus, they can be killed pretty efficiently due to lack of resistance).

    in fact, the "body shield" isn't even that good because zombies are incredibly slow without speed. Even with speed II they can't catch anyone sprinting or sprint jumping.

    another issue - camping. Imagine getting like... idk 3+ necros in a flagroom together. That would be incredibly annoying to fight against, especially in a small flagroom like the one on blackout, not least because of how crowded it'd be. this rework encourages necro's campy nature because mobs still aren't mobile (with the possible exception of blazes) meaning they're most effective when used in cramped spaces (i.e. flagrooms)

    interesting idea (particularly like the "triple arrow" concept) but not effective because of a complete lack of damage. Why play this when I can play Archer or Engineer? Both classes do far more damage and skeleton arrows are notoriously inaccurate

    also idk how far skeletons can go from the necro but if its just 5 blocks i'd suggest extending this to avoid hamstringing the 'ranged' aspect

    please remove this ^^ it's extremely obnoxious

    like ur pretty screwed in melee w/the blazes since the sword gets replaced by a fire-charge. Can't get your sword for 3 seconds and with less tankiness and no weapon you have to run to avoid dying. Even worse if someone kills ur blazes - which isn't too difficult (depeding on how high in the air they are/can go -idk if you've limited that or not) - as you have no way to deal damage for 3 seconds.

    also the melee weapon is weaker than with current necro and to get it back you have to trade blazes in for a garbage mob, which doesn't help much (its hard enough to kill peeps with the pickaxe and buffed mobs as it is)

    why this necro is bad at recovery: zero mob buffs - mobs cannot go fast and chase down/kill carriers (neither can you), mediocre/poor ranged damage (id imagine very few people can kill a carrier, from a distance, w/a power 1 bow & 5 arrows), no way to heal mobs (if they die, u must wait 3-8 seconds to respawn), and no melee damage

    why this necro is bad at any offensive role: cannot use a particular weapon - or even a weapon - all of the time if u want to use more than 1 mob (trade offs, mentioned earlier), are extremely vulnerable to assassins when using anything but ur zombies, actual melee weapon is nerfed, necro cannot fight or kill heavies, soldiers, engineers, or mages (probably forgot some others) when using zombies as they are weak and all of the aforementioned classes either 1) outrange necro, 2) outdamage necro, or 3) out-tank necro, necro can no longer destroy engineer turrets, necro damage from 'triple shot' is extremely unreliable, mobs are slow, blazes easily sniped by archers, blazes take long time to respawn, blaze fireballs are subject to almost as much inaccuracy as skeleton arrows, blaze damage from fire-ball is terrible (one heart true damage???) unless u get a direct hit, skeleton arrows have much shorter range than arrows shot from necro's bow, mob switch time leaves necro very exposed depending on situation (or if mobs are dead), and necro is completely destroyed by mage

    why this necro is bad at defense: assuming all mobs are constrained to a range relatively close to the necro - as the zombies are - then necro is only 'effective' in a very particular area. This would be fine if mobs were particularly mobile or did a lot of damage, but since they don't it creates a situation where defense relies entirely on positioning by the necro. What you have created is a camping class that wants to be mobile but can't because of lack of damage, mobility, and reliable ranged damage

    necro defense is bad because mobs are easy to kill, deal low damage, only conceivably works in cramped spaces (defending the flag) but melee weapon is weak and zombies are even weaker so not effective unless u have a necro party, also vulnerable to assassins, chemists, mages, and pyros (all of whom can kill ur mobs, and you, very quickly - and all of whom tend to invade)

    in sum...

    this necro rework is stuffed with creative and neat ideas/concepts but they're all too watered down or require so many silly trade offs (i.e. losing your bow or sword depending on what mob you spawn - why would you add that???) that it doesn't work. also, as stated earlier, the mob control concept makes this class ridiculous in flagrooms (not necessarily strong but annoying) and on comparatively 'closed in' maps like blackout and some areas on clocktower and opposites collide

    to fix this, i've already made some suggestions. some others to address my concerns:
    • significantly buff zombies. idc what u buff (damage, resistance, speed, hp regen, etc.) but give necro a reason to right click on the zombie egg other than "i rly need my sword because im getting rekt in melee"
    • buff skeletons. either enchant their bow or give them speed. both would help them fulfill their midranged/ranged role
    • GIVE NECRO A MELEE WEAPON THAT CAN BE USED AT ALL TIMES (not intending to be rude, thats just a huge problem with this rework :wink: :wink:)
    • Make necro less mob dependent than u have it (i.e. give it its 5th steak back)
    • significantly increase blaze damage
    • change how necro controls its mobs to be less annoying & campy. Some ideas: https://www.brawl.com/threads/65540/ (ik you saw it before)
    • buff necro's bow or increase the fire rate
    • consider increasing the number of zombies spawned by 1-2 as they are far more effective in groups
    • maybe add a thing necro can use to temporarily trap enemies so they can get whaled on by zombies/skeletons? idk if u play LoL but think Yorick's w - @Miskey what do u think
    hugs

    admiral
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #2 EmperorTrump45, Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  3. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

    Joined:
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    Discord:
    GalaThundR#7914
    Ok you do have a lot of good points. I decided to make Necro less tanky so it will rely on it's mobs a bit more and encourage strategies. But yes it does seem very weak so i decided to readd the pickaxe and the golden sword.

    My fault here. About the mobs being very slow and can't do anything because of that, I was intending the mobs to be the exact same speed as the player. My bad for the confusion here I didn't specify it. So they would essentially have speed 2 or if it's code able just be as fast as the player.
    I also buffed the damage the zombies would do a little over double to 4.5 hearts instead of just 2. I'm not very good at damage calculating so to be safe I underestimated and I seemed to have done that too much.

    For skeleton's and blaze's, their items will just replace the egg in the inventory when selected. Similar to how elf works. Now the bow will replace the skeleton egg, and the fire charge will replace the blaze egg.
    Skeleton's and the Necro's bow have been buffed to power 2, along with the fireballs being buffed to do 2.5 hearts of true damage from an indirect hit and 5.5 hearts with a direct hit.
    The arrows and fireballs will go wherever the player is looking. The mobs themselves don't aim. They also are not offset by the mobs AI. (Ex. skeletons not always shooting perfectly straight)
    If skeletons are selected and you shoot an arrow, all the skeletons will shoot arrows at the exact same angle, direction, and speed. Same with blazes.

    I think 2 mobs max is a good limit so the necro isn't completely obstructed by mobs and as you said before, clutteres the flagroom. Hopefully with the buffed damage they do better aswell.
    I do want Necro to become more reliant on its mobs so it can actively use them to gain advantages in battle, but not completely rely on them to do all the fighting. The current necro doesn't really have control over its mobs other than buffing them just to have them almost immediately killed afterwards.

    Thanks for the feedback. I've seen the major mistakes I made regarding their damage and how they manuever which I mistaken before so thanks. If there's anymore improvement I'd love to hear it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #3 GalaThundR, Jul 18, 2017
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