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Idea ENGINEER REWORK

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by ExtremeEvoboost, May 6, 2018.

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Do you like this Rework idea?

  1. Yes! Its perfect.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Yes, but it needs work. (Comment why)

    50.0%
  3. No, It needs a lot of work. (Comment why)

    16.7%
  4. No this is not a good idea at all.

    33.3%
Thread Status:
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  1. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man

    Joined:
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    +200
    Alright, shower-ideas, don't fail me now.

    GOAL: Make engineer more combat oriented, while reducing its reliance on auto-targeting turrets and B******t regeneration V. Give players the ability and a reason to participate in PVP combat.
    upload_2018-5-6_21-28-31.png upload_2018-5-6_22-26-16.png
    ITEMS:
    -Iron Helmet
    -Iron Chestplate
    -Leather Leggings
    -Iron Boots

    Engineer Pickaxe (Diamond Pickaxe) Sharpness I, Efficiency I
    Wooden Sword (Turret Manual Override)
    4 Steak
    Dispenser (Turret)
    Regenerator (Cake)
    Entry Teleporter (Stone Pressure plate)
    Exit Teleporter (Iron Pressure plate)
    Flag Compass
    20 Iron
    Nether star (Class Selector)


    Engineer Pickaxe
    The main melee weapon of the Engineer, used to beat people's heads in, and quickly destroy buildings.
    Added Efficiency I (Gives Engineer the ability to quickly destroy their own and enemy structures, faster than any other class, useful for combating other engineers.)
    Removed Knockback I (Reduces annoyance)

    Turret Manual Override
    The first real major change. In the interest in making this more useful in normal gameplay, arrows with the TMO will deal 10 (5 hearts) of damage to unarmored players. (Aka what the turret does currently, but we’ll get to that) and can be fired as fast as you can click, but will disable auto-firing for the turret when held.
    Also used to block against assassins.

    Engineer Steak x4
    Healing items. Nuff' said.

    Turret Costs 10 Iron Ingots to Build
    The Primary change of this rework. Right clicking will place the turret, Shift right clicking while the turret is currently placed will destroy the turret. 3 Iron will be restored
    -Turret spawns with 8 health (instead of its original 20)
    -Can be damaged by Melee attacks, Archer arrows, Damage spells, Pure Element Arrows, Pyro Arrows, and either the dispenser or fence being destroyed.
    -Turret arrows will deal 7 damage (3.5 hearts) per shot.
    -Turret takes 3 seconds to build
    -Right clicking the turret with at least 2 Iron ingots in inventory will restore 4 health to the turret per click, consuming the 2 iron ingots in the process.
    -Turret No longer targets invisible ninjas, but can still hit them if they are in the way of the targeted player.
    -Turret No longer loses health upon firing.

    Regenerator Costs 6 Iron Ingots to build
    Right clicking will place the regenerator, Shift right clicking while the regenerator is currently placed will destroy the regenerator. 2 Iron will be restored.
    -Charges at same rate as before
    -All players (not just the engineer) consume 1 slice of the cake
    -Cannot use if at full health/items, or if you already have a regeneration effect on you.
    -Applies regeneration IV (0:05) if the player has been in combat within the last 10 seconds.
    -Applies regeneration IV (0.05) and restores all items a medic would normally be able to restore if the player has not been in combat within the last 10 seconds.
    -Cannot restore Iron Ingots

    Entry & Exit Teleporters Costs 2 Iron Ingots to build each
    Right clicking will place the teleporter, Shift right clicking while the teleporter is currently placed will destroy the teleporter. 1 Iron will be restored.
    -Basically the same as before, except it costs iron.

    Iron Ingots x20
    You can only spawn one of each building at a time

    The fundamentals that tie this rework together. Iron is used to build and repair buildings.
    Ways to Acquire Iron Ingots:
    -Killing Players with a melee attack, fall damage, etc will award 10 Iron Ingots
    -Killing Players with a Turret will award 2 Iron ingots
    -Destroying Enemy buildings
    -Turret: 5 Iron ingots
    -Regenerator: 3 Iron ingots
    -Teleporter: 1 Iron ingots
    -Mob Beacon: 3 Iron ingots
    -Cannot be regenerated from regenerators or medics.
    -1 Iron ingot will regenerate every 20 seconds
    -A Maximum of 20 Iron Ingots can be attained

    What do you think? You like it? Don't? Share your thoughts! I'm more than willing to make changes if it will help make a better engineer for tomorrow, hey maybe one day it will be competitively viable and Not broken as hell. Since removing Engineer is out of the question.

    Required mentions:
    @Nohox
    @Miskey
    @puhdgy
    @redslime
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
    #1 ExtremeEvoboost, May 6, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  2. CoCaptainBlue

    CoCaptainBlue Well-Known Member

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    engineer is good already, does this suggest that they could build 3 regenerators?
     
  3. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man

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    No their still limited to one each, was just trying to give a reason for engineer to have to do something other than camp. Similar to how the engineer works in TF2.
     
  4. Roll0fSushi

    Roll0fSushi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Discord:
    Roll0fSushi #9690
    I think this is pretty good idea for engineer. However I don’t exactly think it’s needed. I do agree that engineer is a tad bit annoying but I don’t think there’s enough players who play engineer for there to be a rework of it. Nonetheless I think it’s a creative way to make engineer a little less powerful with the iron ignot part of the idea and having to earn to make the things in the class. (even though I think it’s fine how it is atm) the only downfall I see is players being annoyed on having to wait to be able to build and put down their items. I find engineers pretty easy to kill with the right class so having to wait to put down the regeneration might be a bit annoying to them.
    If anything I suggest making it less iron to build certain things. Other than that it’s a very creative idea!
     
  5. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

    Joined:
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    Alright, I'll chip in my opinions on this.

    This is an intricate rework with many good ideas. +1 on the pickaxe, +1 on the TMO. My main gripe with this concept is that adding an ingot system makes the class complex (not complicated), even more so than it is now. We had a discussion on the complexity of CTF classes recently, the soldier class for example one sports one single feature and is a widely used class even for regulars, while there is currently a tendency to make classes more complex by adding more features and shortcuts to them in an attempt to balance. Overly complex classes which aren't self-explanatory makes players stay away from it, so intuitive features are the goal. Things like "shift right click to.." certainly works in gameplay, but casuals might never figure out (tooltips don't count because reading sucks). Given that you have an efficiency pickaxe which is a great idea, you could just continue to use it to break stuff, as that's how Minecraft works in vanilla as well. Another thing that goes in this direction is that occupying a slot for iron ingots makes the whole hotbar filled, there's not even space for the class selector, let alone a flag. The nature of engineer as toolmaster makes fixing this difficult however and I don't know how to improve this aspect. Removing a feature would be a shame.

    Adding a timer to the cake to prevent engineers fleeing to their beloved cake is a poor choice and unintuitive in my opinion, better slow down the regeneration so there is a chance at killing the engineer. In general though, this rework could work out in gameplay.

    Oh and keep turret as counter to invis ninjas pls.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #5 Nohox, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  6. redslime

    redslime Lead Developer

    Joined:
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    Discord:
    redslime#8503
    So when you spawn with 20 iron ingots and a turret costs 10, does that mean you can place 2 turrets?
     
  7. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man

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    I should make this more clear, no you can only make 1 of each structure. You can’t make 2 turrets, or 3 cakes, or 10 exit teleporters, etc.

    You already start out with enough iron to place every structure, you just need to get more after that. Plus the idea was to give the engineer more armor to be able to survive without having to camp by a regenerator 24/7
    Alright, I agree that it is a bit complex. I was thinking if CTF is going in the way of elf, a pretty complicated class, then engineer should be able to get the same treatment for the sake of balance. But if the mods decree they want it to be simple, thats fine by me.

    As for the regeneration, the regenerator will still heal the engineer if its in combat, just slower than if they weren’t out of combat, +like I said above, I gave the engi more armor to offset its reliance on the regenerator.

    The Nether star problem I have absolutely no solution for, its the same issue that chemist has, maybe something like how chemist has it set up?

    I’ve heard so many people b***h about invis ninjas being shot by turrets that I figured it would be nice to have. Could remove if that would fix some issues.

    Thanks for the like on the pickaxe/TMO though, and thanks for taking the time to look at this. :smile:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. puhdgy

    puhdgy ♡·⋰˚× ᴍᴇᴅɪᴄ ᴍᴀɪɴ & ᴇx-sᴛᴀꜰꜰ ×˚⋱·♡

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    pudgy#6136
    I can agree with Nohox that it’s complex, and while I don’t generally thing complex is too bad, I think the idea that the majority of Minecraft players are younger kids makes it so creating complex classes is more of an issue. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I enjoy the idea of engineer as a support class than I enjoy the ‘campy, no skill, irritating’ class. I like the idea of another support class being a threat. Teleporters make it a good support class, so does the cake.. but I think the need to protect a support class to make them be a good support class makes it balanced. You should need to protect your support to make them effective. However, with current engineer, I’m pretty sure the autofire mechanic makes people think it’s ‘skill-less’. I’d like to see engineers have to aim at people to shoot at them, it would make it more interactive than being able to go AFK. I do think it’s a hard class to make not complex while still being viable, that being said I think your rework is not bad at all, but yes the complexity is holding it back a bit.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
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