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Personal CTF Wishlist

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by DeadRhos, Jul 9, 2018.

?

Which reworks would you like to see implemented?

  1. Soldier

    22.5%
  2. Assassin

    20.0%
  3. Dwarf

    50.0%
  4. Pyro

    22.5%
  5. Engineer

    40.0%
  6. Necro

    75.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Minimum Brain Size

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    These are the changes that I'd like to see implemented in CTF. They all revolve around making classes simpler and more fun to play, which for a lot of them means reversing changes that have been made in the past. Ideally, everything would be implemented in one big update for the sake of maintaining balance, but the final two reworks could be implemented on their own without issue.

    I'd also like to draw attention to the Necro rework, since it's pretty much just a group of suggestions that crop up time and time again, and I think most people would be happy with it.

    The following reworks must be implemented together to avoid one class becoming overpowered.

    Soldier
    Net buff, but countered by changes below. Simpler and more fun for new players.
    * Give back infinite wall climb [Buff]
    * Assassinate cannot be blocked while wall climbing [Nerf] [Assassin Buff]

    Assassin
    Assassin is pretty much useless now that respawning doesn't replenish items. The various changes to classes shown here will mean that Assassin's role will mostly revolve around clearing flagrooms of defensive threats (though it can perform well in defense as well).
    * No knockback while using Speed Boost [Buff] [Dwarf Nerf] [Pyro Nerf]

    Dwarf
    Being unable to block Assassins means that Dwarf is no longer able to reliably defend flagrooms on its own, and also heavily reduces the ability for teams to turtle. To counter this, the level cap is removed, though this shouldn't make much of a difference since Assassins will be able to take it out so easily.
    * Replace sword with axe [Nerf] [Assassin Buff]
    * Remove level cap [Buff]

    Pyro
    There's been a lot of discussion about Pyro, but none of the suggestions are as neat and as easy as simply returning it to what it was. This version of Pyro is especially vulnerable to Assassins and Ninjas, but can take out Soldiers far more easily. It's also more fun and easier to understand.
    * Axe instakills again [Buff]
    * Full Leather Armor [Nerf]

    The following reworks can be implemented as standalone updates.

    Engineer
    Small quality-of-life changes. Cake buff might make Assassin OP, in which case it could be changed to only allow the restoration of steak, though this isn't particularly intuitive.
    * Cake restores items, Medic cooldown applies [Buff] [Assassin Buff]
    * Teleporters work both ways [Buff]

    Necro [Change]
    Long overdue - this is the aggregation of many obvious Necro suggestions that have appeared over the years.
    * Mobs follow Necro when holding Redstone Torch
    * Mobs attack whoever the Necro attacks until anyone involved dies
    * Mobs target flag carriers
    * Zombies: Low speed, high attack, high defence
    * Skeletons: High speed, high attack, low defence
    * Blazes: High speed, high attack, low defence, high fireball speed/rate of fire [Soldier Nerf]
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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    #1 DeadRhos, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  2. LoL200e

    LoL200e Active Member

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    Omg Hahaha, one ninja and every pyro in the Flagroom is dead.

    I just want the old pyro back, not a new rework to more ****.
    That is the truth.
     
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  3. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Minimum Brain Size

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    Is that not basically the old Pyro?
     
  4. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    You might as well remove dwarf if you're going to take away its only defense against assassin
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. Rejeqted

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    actually like this rework from necro, this would be a bit more useful in the competetive scene then currently
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. TheMaelstromsEye

    TheMaelstromsEye Well-Known Member

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    I havent been here in a while? has archer been nerfed? does it still instakill past 30 blocks? I ask only cause i didnt see it on the reworks
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. LoL200e

    LoL200e Active Member

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    No, with 3 steaks the pyro is dead>insta, like his instakill kills insta.
    5 Steaks and everything would be fine.
     
  8. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Minimum Brain Size

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    Ah, my mistake, it's been a while :v
     
  9. iFlaze

    iFlaze Well-Known Member

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    I really like these ideas. Infinite wall climb is way more fun and having a cooldown isn't necessary, it is just an useless restriction. The assassinate change would make it easier for an assassin to kill a soldier. At the moment, it's really hard to assassinate a soldier (for me at least) because most of the time they are just wall climbing or are just too far/high away.

    I like this idea but I don't think it is really necessary and it probably won't do much. I mean, if you use the sugar because you are going to assassinate, then if someone hits you, they insta kill you so the knockback doesn't matter. If you just use the sugar to go somewhere faster then nobody should be able to hit you as you can escape anyone with speed III, except for ninjas but taking no knockback won't stop them to kill you haha. It can still be a bit useful in certain situations though, but not worth it because taking no knockback would confuse a lot of people, especially new players who would think you are just cheating.


    This rework would make dwarf not viable at all for a good defense as it would die to any assassin. However, it would encourage a lot of new players (potential regulars) to play it because they think it's OP and they would actually have a lot more fun playing it.

    I'm not a fan at all of instakills. If pyro were to be reworked I think we should buff it but in a different way. The insta kill would be frustrating for many players as it oneshots them without any chance for them to avoid that but the pyro would die to almost every ninja, making the class weak to an organized offense but annoying xD.

    I think engineer has nothing to do in CTF. However, as I guess it won't be removed, I prefer the class to have more things that advantage your team than things that annoy the opposite team. Therefore, in my opinion the changes are great as they make the class more fun to play but also makes life easier for its teammates.

    For necro I like these suggestions because they make the class easier to play and more useful. It would now be able to target specific players especially flag carriers, which would make the class more focused on the objective as before.
     
    • Like Like x 3
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    #9 iFlaze, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  10. lnformative

    lnformative Well-Known Member

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    Just delete the game and replace it with minecraft version of raving rabbids
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Foodcourt

    Foodcourt CTF MOD

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    Discord:
    Foodcourt#6408
    I'd definitely like to see the infinite wall climb ability brought back. Thinking back to when Soldier had infinite wall climb, I found it much more enjoyable to play than the current Soldier. Secondly, I agree with making a climbing Soldier susceptible to Assassins. This would give Assassin a much needed buff.

    Although it is a simple change, I am certainly a fan of Assassin being immune to knockback while using speed boost. This would especially be helpful in situations where you are trying to target a flag holder through opposing support.

    In the current game, Dwarf is the most obvious target for an assassin. By removing any defense a Dwarf has against an Assassin, it is going to be too easy to kill and make Dwarf useless in my opinion. Dwarf is a class that bases itself around amassing strength over time, so making it vulnerable to Assassin will put it in a position where it would be incredibly difficult to reach a level where you become a legitimate defensive threat.

    At the moment, I agree that Pyro is in need of a rework, but I disagree with bringing back instakills. I have two potential changes that I think could work for Pyro (separate from one another)
    1. A simple reduction of the time it takes to build up frenzy. Currently, when using frenzy, hitting another player will not build up your next meter. I think that allowing a Pyro to build up their next frenzy while using their current one would be advantageous for defensive Pyros.
    2. I was thinking of implementing an XP bar that does not cap at one level, but caps at two. Currently, Pyro must completely fill its XP bar to use a frenzy. Changing this so that Pyro can amass two frenzies (two full XP levels) would make it much more threatening on both defense and recovery. Activating frenzy would only require one level, therefore a Pyro with two XP bars could use a total of two frenzies. Obviously, an extended cooldown would have to exist in between frenzies to make sure they are not able to be used back to back.
    While I generally discourage telecapping, I believe two-way teleporters would be a positive buff for engineer assuming they were balanced by increasing the time it takes to teleport a player. If cake were to restore items, I believe it would be best if it were to function the same as medic, where the first bite would give the existing regeneration effect, and a second bite would restore a player's inventory assuming their health is full. By requiring two bites, the amount of cake on a regenerator would remain low enough to not be used excessively.

    This Necro change is my favorite of the reworks you proposed. Currently, even though Necro is permitted in team matches, it is rarely ever utilized. I think the changes you stated above would encourage the use of Necro in competitive matches.
     
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    #11 Foodcourt, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  12. Icarus_82

    Icarus_82 Well-Known Member

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    Although some of these ideas could really help out the game (I like the soldier ones especially), reverting many of the class updates over the years isn't the way to go imo. These changes were implemented for good reason at the time and I don't think they should be removed because some players are nostalgic about their favourite classes being strong. Sure, pyro was really fun for pyro mains, but many offence players didn't like having 0 counterplay - especially newer ones.

    I'm not saying that every past change made needs to be kept forever, but we need to ask why it was changed in the first place. For example - having infinite soldier wallclimb may make the class more enjoyable and easy to pick up, but the downside could be very long stalemates and map abusing.

    I like the Necro change though - I feel like it brings together the best aspects of several reworks.
     
  13. Versions

    Versions CTF Moderator

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    yes it still does instakill past 30 blocks
     
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  14. TheMaelstromsEye

    TheMaelstromsEye Well-Known Member

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    still good in this game then. Poggers
     
  15. Deppuccino

    Deppuccino Well-Known Member

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    Infinite wall climb is good for laggy players who need to waste all their wallclimb just to get up onto the Blackout flagroom.
     
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  16. Proterozoic

    Proterozoic Wiki Team is a Semi-Staff Rank

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    Your reworks literally involve reverting pyro, engineer and soldier back to the mcpvp state. There was a reason they were changed in the first place. Your assassin fix doesn't address the problem you indicated.
    Do I agree some of these classes need changing? yes.
    Do I think that these reworks are any good? absolutely not.
     
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  17. DeadRhos

    DeadRhos Minimum Brain Size

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    Class design in the past few years has revolved around nerfing overpowered features, which is fine in moderation but it means that the classes start to become less unique and move closer to vanilla PVP (which not everyone enjoys - see HG). So my general idea - which I admittedly might be going about in the wrong way - is to increase player retention with varied, powerful classes that even a total scrub could pick up and play without too much trouble. You know, like Archer.
     
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  18. Proterozoic

    Proterozoic Wiki Team is a Semi-Staff Rank

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    Making classes more powerful and reverting classes are not the same thing. We already changed those classes to their current "nerfed" state specifically because there were problems. We'd have the same complaints we had on mcpvp if we were to revert them, hence why I agreed they should be changed, but these solutions weren't the answer.
    For the record, a "scrub" as you put it could pick up and play any class currently. They just may not necessarily play it well.
     
  19. MrCostco

    MrCostco Member

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    Just delete Necro problem sovled
     
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  20. bojoi

    bojoi CTFer

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    These are very nice, I hope that the necro change actually happens because it's amazing. Necro can be a more used class.
    For a dwarf, you shouldn't remove their sword, it's already an underplayed class. Removing the sword and replacing it with an axe would just make dwarves work for their level and then get assassinated and have no way to defend themselves asides hitting first.
    Pyro, to be honest the current pyro is working well and is fun to play. The old pyro is still fun but it might be a bit unfair to other classes because lighting someone on fire is pretty easy, but instakilling was fun.
     
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