Idea Looking for feedback - Gameplay concepts

Why are you trying to fix chemist given the current state of Necro, Dwarf and Engineer?

Also, I would suggest fixing the classes currently in the game before adding any new ones

 

tf

 

Dislike the chemist idea

 

a good chemist is great for clearing roaming ninja defense and roaming ninjas are part of a defense on most maps now and it has got pretty boring facing 2-3 ninjas every game imo. i think the resistance change would be a good way to introduce a more effective counter to roaming ninjas. it would encourage ninjas to play smarter instead of going for maximum damage every game, which is what most ninjas seem to do now

 

Meta shakeup can be done without adding a new class, you can modify an existing one and kill 2 birds with one stone (that and making a class useful).

The ideas here are not terrible (I dislike the whole chemist idea as in my view it is a support class, but it does do what you wanted it to. That is, assuming you test it properly). Few things on the wraith class:
- long cooldowns are a bad idea in any context, CTF is a fast paced game now.
- Wraith feels like an inappropriate name, giving the idea of stealth when you're just blowing someone's head off with a shotgun.
- I can't help but think this won't be particularly effective at recovery. The spread bullets etc. aren't exactly an effective way to recover given the damage is spread among everyone rather than being specifically focused.

The switch one I'm not even going to go into because it's too basic. There'd also need to be significant limits on that to make it work well.

However, my personal opinion is you just need to park all of those ideas and save them for after you've fixed the bigger glaring holes with CTF classes, which could be reworked in a myriad of good ways (just look through the suggestion forum) as well as changing up the meta.

 

Sure thing, I didn't want to show a fully ready class on that one, just bring out the concept and see what you guys would think what kind of impact it would have on the game.

 

I would really love to have weekly testing or just more frequent testing because the game needs some new things to keep it interesting to play.

I'm not a fan of the chemist idea, even if I like the idea to buff chemist, which is a quite weak class atm. I think it would still be better than the current chemist but health 2 potions would make you struggle against ninjas a bit even if you get resistance. I think we just need to put protection I to the boots and helmet or give the chemist resistance potions for a few seconds.

For the new class ideas, I love them!
The wraith idea is really cool and I definitely think it could be very useful on recovery because it would be able to tp to the carrier if they get out and are out of range, while not being too op because of the iron sword which doesn't deal that much damage and the mobility of the class which doesn't have anything special. It would also be able to shoot carriers which are too far away, and that can be useful for stalemates (along with the tp). Also, the AoE effect is great because there isn't any class with AoE abilities right now except a bit chemist and pyro, and it will limit the power of having big groups of players with medics, especially in stalemates.

The swapper idea is awesome in my opinion. It could have a lot of different uses that could at the same time offer solutions to situations that are hard to solve and bring fun to the game. I think you should indeed try to make a class around that.

And anyways, new content is always good and even if it's not perfect, you can still edit and fix the class in the future and especially during the testing. You can't make a perfect class and making a little unbalanced class is honestly still better than never having a new class, because it changes the meta and brings fun.

As for the classes like necro or dwarf, that require a change, I don't really care if you don't change them now. They aren't that much of a problem and anyways, you can't and shouldn't fix everything at the same time. Having new stuff/classes and fixing a class like chemist is already great. You need to start by something, no matter what it is imo.

 

I am pretty sure this has been tried before and the consensus was that it sucked.

So I suppose you are adding this to help chemist survive longer, because currently it has a hard time living with all the ninjas running around. While I do like this change, perhaps it is also good to look at the reason why chemist is not so popular now. With ninja being the strongest class, maybe it is better to take something away from ninja. In my opinion the damage output and the pearls are fine, but the eggs are so obnoxious to play against. Especially because they give you slowness and you will just get combod into oblivion. I think giving chemist resistance I will help this specific class as. However, in my opinion, ninja is just in an unhealthy state right now. It is the strongest class and has a decent chance at 1v1ing every class and some classes just don't stand a chance. Even if you kill it, it will instantly be back. And the eggs make it impossible to do anything back if you don't perfectly land your hits. It is unfun to play against but at the same time it is the most popular class.

No offense, but you just stole this from reaper from overwatch.

I think this is a cool idea, however I think with these cooldowns and no gating it looks quite overpowered.

I think adding guns is a big no for ctf as it takes away from the atmosphere of the gamemode. And I think adding more ranged weapons is not a positive side. Ranged weapons are really annoying to deal with and usually quite op, unless nerfed so that they are only good if you put a lot of practice in the class. I think it will just frustate players. Mage is already quite a frustrating class, so is elf. I doubt adding another ranged class will be positive for the game.

Finally, your swapper idea seems like a really terrible addition to ctf that doesn't belong in the gamemode and should be kept to hg.

 

YES! New classes. So many people reject the idea, but tbh it IS the best thing for CTF. We cannot keep playing the same game over and over and it not changing. That makes the game very stale. Don't let a few people tell you that the ideas aren't good unless the whole community plays them and it makes the game too unbalanced. However, unbalance is good is some circumstances. Too much unbalance would ruin the game. I'm willing to test out the classes in game before judging them calling them "too op" or "too up". Let's try to just play them out and see how it works in game before judging how exactly it plays within the game. Also, not too wild about the chemist changes. I think @Snowleak14 makes a good point.

 

1. Curious about the chemist idea. Currently, a regular ninja hit deals 3 hearts of damage to a chemist, while a direct health II potion heals 4 hearts. Resistance 1 decreases incoming damage by what, like 20%? So that would go to about 2.5 hearts of damage instead. 10 health II potions is 30 hearts healed maximum. I believe MC can register like 2 hits per second, so a ninja using regular hits only would go to about 5 hearts per second. For potions, I believe you can throw as fast as you can click. So theoretically, you'd have to pot at least twice per second in order to stay alive, leaving you with 3 hearts in 1 second of damage with a direct potion hit. But, since you only have 3 hearts left, you'd REALLY have to pot 3 times per second in order to survive the next second of damage from the ninja. So if you pot 3 times directly, you'd be left with 7 hearts. Just barely enough to deal with regular ninja dps.

The problem with the previous health II change was that most couldn't pot fast enough to stay alive AND kill the ninja attacking them. I don't think resistance 1 will change that. I think you'll find that chemist will still require more potting than pvping to be able to even stay alive.

An idea I had for chemist was to have the health potions not require mana at all, or just very minimal, while also slightly increasing the mana required from other potions like poison and damage. This allows chemists to still stay alive and pvp, but not be able to spam their potions all the time. Maybe it would also be beneficial to increase the potion count with this change, idk.


2. Wraith seems like a cool concept. I'm iffy about putting "guns" into ctf. But if yall can change that I'm cool w it.I feel like the shotgun should be closer to instakill, if not so. Cause I feel like if it's a one shot at a certain range, or if it deals high-ish damage but you have 2 shots, then it would be a viable class. If it can only deal 5 hearts max damage, they just have to steak once and their already back up to almost full health. Teleport to a flag carrier then be able to 1-2 shot them could be really strong. An effective range would also come into play, i.e. a shot from like over 2-3 blocks = no insta or a lot less damage. A notification of "You've been marked!" could also be useful for countering, allowing a player to block to reduce the incoming damage somewhat.

I also think giving this class Speed I or II would be beneficial, as it is a recovery class. Being able to get into close range for that shotgun would probably be it's main form of recovery, and if something happens that it's teleport gets negated, I think Speed would help prevent the class from becoming useless.

I think if these ideas are implemented, drawn out stalemates would be a lot more difficult to achieve.

3. Seems like a versatile ability.

4. Another idea for preventing stalemates. . . exponential flag poisoning increase damage flag poison deals over time. Or just have like after 5 minutes of both teams holding flag, have them reset.

 

why u gotta do me like that tho

Wraith overall seems decent, no singularly overcentralising ability but I can imagine some strong combinations of its abilities. It's a decent addition with a more defined role than the most recent additions Mage and Elf; though, I do question why it's being considered unless it's meant to be the free recovery class that should have been added ages ago. However, I don't think you should use the Hopper item for the Shotgun ability. Placeable blocks are pretty annoying to use for abilities, and can be buggy if not accounted for. I suggest using an item that isn't placeable and using a server resource pack if there is no suitable item to represent the ability. I'm also curious, at what range do you plan for the Shotgun to start dealing maximum damage to a single target?i think it would be more interesting and not busted if you could teleport with the flag btw dont @ me

The Swapper ability seems interesting, it would definitely open the door for some creative strategies. It's also just a fun ability to use. However, this also makes whatever class has the ability a very powerful support class that would probably be quite common. Considering this, the class will have to be quite weak to compensate. You should also consider how this ability can be used for harassment. It would be possible to annoy and make a player useless by repeatedly swapping them around with a group of people playing this class; so, I'd suggest making players immune to the ability for a length of time after being hit by it, a bit longer than its cooldown. I understand it hasn't been fleshed out yet, but these are things you should keep in mind.

I don't have much to say about the Chemist proposal. I think Chemist should go the route of a support class with greater focus on debuffing enemies, something it lacks currently. This would give the class a more unique role than just another offensive juggernaut, and take full advantage of the 'potions' gimmick. In terms of what's been suggested, I can't really comment on whether it does what you've set out for it to do without some testing... but that would require me to start up minecraft and you're asking too much of me

 

Nerf elf, Jokes.
Im not sure about chemist as I hardly use it, and would give an opinion that would make no sense.
I like the concept of wraith with the teleport ability, but I feel the class overall would be weak. I feel the class would be fun, but weak. Leather Helmet, Chain chestplate, Chain leggings, Leather boots is weak, pair this with only 3 steak? and it would result in getting killed by buffed heavies or ninjas fast. I do like the idea of the shotgun, sort of like elf's pure element, and I understand this cooldown cant be low as it would be sort of broken on defence. I just cant see this class being used in PPM's or Official matches, as why would you sacrifice an important role such as heavy for this. I think being able to tag your teammates would be great, as you could use this is in more ways than just teleporting to opponents. Ive always like the ninja kit in Hunger games, and would like some form of it to be added to CTF like this update. I feel like this would be great if added, but it would need changes and a bit of a buff. A couple of suggestions would be being able to mark your teammates. Possibly a perm speed 1 and a sharp 1 iron sword (More of a high damage recovery feel). Far more steak, maybe 5/6. Not 3.

Eya eya eya upa wa la

 

oh cool HG kits in CTF

instant +1 right there

 

I think the chemist buff should help a lot against ninjas, so +1 there. My only concern is that back when chemist was a stronger class it was almost only ninjas that could kill it - having 10 pots meant it could easily outlast a heavy or soldier - and now with pyro not being instakill would that not make ninja even more necessary? Just a point to consider, most people are thinking about whether chemist will be able to fight a ninja but buffing it like this could adversely affect a lot of other defensive classes.

The Wraith idea is very interesting and definitely looks fun to play. I'd personally prefer lower cooldowns on the abilities and less armour/steak, but this is more a matter of preference as both options would work similarly just with slightly different playstyles. I disagree that we should only focus on current out of meta classes - these classes haven't been fixed for a reason and we shouldn't stop any attempt at progress in the gamemode for the sake of a few dead classes.

Huge +1 for the swapper ability, regardless of how it would end up being implemented.

 

I agree with @Proterozoic in that I don't think we should really be adding new classes to the game. With the current state of Dwarf, Necro, and Engineer being pretty much dead, reworking those classes would essentially be adding new classes to the game, so it seems like a win-win to me. We already have ideas and identities for these dead classes, why not use them? It seems easier than conjuring up new classes to add and would have the exact same effect.

As far as the new classes proposed, I think they offer some interesting ideas but feel kind of weak. The mark ability is cool, but once the wraith uses it its essentially useless. With no other mobiltiy options almost every capping class will be easily able to run away from it, or just straight up kill it. The cooldowns seem kind of high, maybe lower range and cooldown? In addition, I don't think guns belong in CTF, probably should replace that with another ability.

The swapper class seems really cool, but would need a lot more planning to really implement. Idk how it would play out in CTF, personally I don't think an entire class revolving around swapping players needs to exist. While I love more CC being added to the game (something I think CTF really needs), the swap seems like it would be either really strong or really weak, and the class's other abilities would have to compensate for it. Maybe something like a pull, or Thresh hook instead?

 

Honestly, most of these ideas are solid and have good feedback in the rest of the comments so I won’t really touch on those.
This is a very small example, only 19 people have voted so far, (and seriously not trying to toot my own horn here) but, https://www.brawl.com/threads/73786/the poll on this thread shows that the majority would prefer that new classes and reworks are added, which is what you’re trying to do above, with small rework of chemist and new class concepts. So I feel these changes are moving in the right direction! (talking like I know anything)
Also +a lot to weekly public testing, I think the test server with the new backend really helped redslime out and the community enjoyed being a part of new development, assisting in anyway they could. I believe community involvement will always be beneficial, so anyways to boost this is good.
Overall, I like it!

 

The swapper honestly seems cool as hell to me! Maybe give it to necro? I mean maybe make the range a bit less because it sounds a bit op. It could fit into the necro theme if you call it something like "soul swapper," since necros are all about dead things!