Idea Anti-Stalemate Idea

That actually sounds like a good idea to me. I would want to test it out and see if it actually works, but I definitely see that good in adding a respawn timer. Often the one thing that really hinders recoveries on stalemates is the sheer amount of people respawning to support, so slowing down those respawns would be very helpful.

 

Imo this is a solution for stalemates in competitive ctf but make casual ctf more worse. I prefer something that can work in both casual and competitive. For this, in casual it not is good idea to force people wait in spawn _ time, especially when lot of people no trying to recov. Also this make instakill classes even more op, and this is a step I think we no need currently.

 

I think this should apply to some classes only, or some more than others, especially in casual. A medic would almost definitely be involved in supporting the carrier, while a necro or soldier for example might not be, and while they certainly could, they'd have a lot less impact than a medic.

 

This would be interesting, definitely down for this to be tested. Just imagine the tension of being stuck in a respawn timer and not being able to do anything while your teams flag carrier is getting slaughtered. Has potential to be extremely fun and competitive!

 

Add It only to match server and keep casual without this change.

 

This is a great solution to the endless stalemates, but this would be very annoying in casual, first for new players who have to wait every time they respawn (and they respawn a lot lol), and secondly just for anyone that is doing something else (you're not obligated to play objectively 24/24 and a lot of people who do not try to recover in stalemates would just leave). A minecraft server is not the same as a fully developed game like Overwatch because Overwatch's players are people who bought the game, know a bit about it and want to play it for a good amount of time so they won't stop playing just because of a respawn timer whereas ctf players are often just players who are looking for a new server and if they are getting bored by the very high respawn time, we'll have even less new players lol. I think as jean said that it could be used in competitive though, but if we can we should stop limiting things in competitive, and rather balance casual as much as we can.
I really like the idea of respawning though, and why not reset the flags after a certain period and make everyone respawn? This would be a bit extreme but it could work.

 

ya maybe just on competitive servers, and not sure if increasing flag poison damage with time would be better or not....a flag poison change would at least not hinder the gameplay of anybody else and only affect the pro regular stalemate capper for either casual or comp

sooo id side more with flag poison, still really good idea

 

I disagree with points here.

First, you need remember half the people in ctf in normal focus other than game (people who just go for kills, friendlies run around). Forcing people stay in spawn when CTF supposed be a fast paced game I Feel will cause people leave, or make new people not like Brawl CTF. Especially in the mornings when there not many people in CTF, big time is in stalemates with little to no recov. This respawn timer will make for less recov in smaller ctf servers.

For bigger servers (maybe 25-40 people), this encourage people for just focus on kills and not encourage to recov. Especially with a normal pyro and assassin with the flag, and more then 1 medic, most people stay away from recov and just focus to kill people, which cause less people for focus on game.

In competitive CTF also I feel this take away from the fast paced CTF when the timer get long. When people wait 10-20 seconds in spawn after they die, it force people to change play style. Ninjas and assassins need play more careful and this is change the meta, for ninja, something I feel currently not needed in CTF (instead something like change the effects for eggs but this is other topic).

Second, I believe all instakill become more OP. Archer is stronger yes, but same with pyro and assassin (pyro yes even though technically instakill only sddsssin and archer). Pyro can kill any recov and make they go away, which lead eventually less people on recov (as recov likely be soldiers, heavies, chemists when respawn timer is high). Assassin I feel this make more op, but has positive impact due to the nature of this class stay the same but it cause more people be alert for assassin if more people start and play (in casual, competitive is different because limits).

Archer is different however, archers still come and even more op if they just focus to hs support, and can work if this plan can work, but after this plan is failed I feel recov discouraged, and instead teams start and turtle and/or focus on kills.

This is personal opinion, in competitive CTF I feel this can (but I disagree) see, but in casual I feel this change meta too much and need a better solution, or no need anytbing for stalemates. But still I feel we need solution for casual and competitive.

 

Although this solution would fix some problems (mainly flag carriers having an advantage from staying close to spawn), it adds in the frustration of being useless for a period of time, and affects some classes (squishy ones like ninja and assassin) much more adversely than other ones.

Personally, I'm much more in favour of either a flag poison idea of a weakness debuff applied to the flag carrier after a certain period of time (some way to prevent medic healing could also be viable).

I'm not really sure what you mean by "unfair". The change is "fair" in the sense that both flag carriers are applied the debuff, so there is still a balance in either team's chance of recovery. It's not punishing the flag carrier for being good, and they would have held the flag for the same amount of time as the other team. If the player is better than the other player with the flag, they will still have an advantage over them. In fact, I'd argue a change like this is even more "fair" in the sense that survival depends more directly on the skill of the flagholder rather than the skill of the teammates keeping them alive. How is having flag carriers be without support for 15 seconds any more fair than the flag poison change?

I think a cap of maybe 5 hearts true damage would be appropriate, but the whole idea is to give an advantage to recovery instead of support. A better player would avoid 2 ninja hits better than a worse one would, but in the current situation it doesn't really matter if the flagholder is good or not (to an extent) because they can sit there blocking and have their team kill everything.

 

Medic doesn't necessarily make increased flagpoison an ineffective change. It is already a strategy for teams to keep a medic away while focusing down a flag carrier, this change would make it so that rather than having to keep the medic away and burn through 4 steak and then the health bar, instead constantly applying pressure has much higher potential to kill the flag carrier.

I disagree that the mechanic is out of the hands of the team, in fact it is the job of the team to protect the flag carrier. It is the job of the support to not let their flag carrier below 5 hearts. The flag carrier is still able to manoeuvre out of the situation by avoiding damage and is still able to steak to avoid random flag poison. The focus in your idea would not be on supporting the flagcarrier, but in ensuring not a single member of the support dies. The recovery would not try to kill the flag carrier, instead they would just try to kill the support one by one until the flag carrier is overwhelmed. If anything, this promotes turtling as nobody wants to die.

The potential rng of flagpoison might make it annoying, so an alternative could be to make the flagcarrier have a weakness debuff or some way to make them easier killed in a stalemate. Medic is also a big problem, but if it takes only a few seconds to kill a flagcarrier, then medic is not so powerful.

 

If recov kills an enemy medic or ninja or whatever, that recov or that flag carrier is not going to last much longer anyways with an increased spawn timer or not - on most maps besides Blackout, they'd already be dead by the time support comes back. I think a spawn timer would slow down gameplay and honestly straight up turn off the fun for being forced to wait there like on time-out. The flag poison option I think would speed up gameplay for teams requiring to act faster in order to take advantage/disadvantage of this increased poison (no more than 5 hearts) e.i. medics on cooldown more often, easier time to team combo a successful recov, and support needing to be even more vigilant and helpful –i think would all contribute to faster action with everyone still having a fun experience and contribution.
Tbh still less risky and few less contemplated disadvantages than an increasing spawn timer upon death during a stalemate. Not against testing at all tho

 

good idea, and this could let you add re spawn time features, i had some ideas some time ago but i forgot them

 

For a short term fix, this is a good idea.

I believe that medic heal is the problem and once that is fixed the rest of the game can be altered, but obviously this is a long term fix that requires lots of testing.

 

Why not increase progressively the time of restore (14s actually) during stalemates instead of keep players without respawn for x time or make any bad change with the flag poison? This would suppose a big amount of pure damage recovs instead of have a recov possibility only with a frenzy/headshot what hardly happens if both teams know how to play well the game so stalemates last long and become boring.

 

Agree with the premise. It's a bandaid but good for the short term.

Disagree with the source of the problem. The problem is less about medic's heal being overpowered and more about it being comparatively overpowered. Classes lack the raw firepower to stop stalemates like they used to due to nerfs. We could solve this problem by nerfing medic heals, but classes are more fun to play when they're more powerful so I'd argue that would be the way to go

 

I partially agree with these two statements, partially disagree. I think medic heal is a part of the problem, but not the whole problem. I think the general problem is that support overwhelms recovery 9 times out of 10. In terms of fixing this there are multiple ways. Of course the first way is, as Lugia stated, to do a bandaid fix (though, depending on how well it might turn out, it could be a long term thing).

Ideally we would fix the root cause, which is what I'm for, though in combination with a tweak like this. In terms of solving the root problem, I wouldn't say just nerf medic heal, or just buff other classes, but more of a combination of the two. Slightly nerf medic heal (hey, I have a good rework that does this!) while also slightly buffing the weaker classes. Doing so would make stalemates not last as long, as well as making the overall gameplay more enjoyable.