1. Welcome to the Brawl website! Feel free to look around our forums. Join our growing community by typing /register in-game!

Idea Chemist Buffs

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Ninsanity, Dec 20, 2018.

?

Which change would you prefer?

  1. Buffs are exclusive to chemist.

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. Buffs are the same, but are removed when chemist dies

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Permanent aura around the chemist

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  4. Ability that buffs nearby teammates for 30 seconds

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  5. Keep buffs the same

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  6. Change buffs, but not by doing any of the ideas listed

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Thread Status:
Please be aware that this thread is more than 30 days old. Do not post unless the topic can still be discussed. Read more...
  1. Ninsanity

    Ninsanity Yoshi Legend and Medic Main

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    539
    Ratings:
    +349
    To clarify the title, when I say buffs, I am referring to the Strength + Speed pot, not the act of making the class stronger. So I've been kinda annoyed at how chemist buffs currently work. Right now, most people play chemist solely to buff people at spawn, which I believe is a bad game mechanic. Furthermore, things such as balancing are harder to do because one has to consider the impacts of buffs on classes. It completely shifts the balance chart. Therefore I've taken a stab at a couple chemist buff changes. Reminder that this is taking into account the chemist change idea, which is giving chemist permanent resistance I.

    1. Make buffs exclusive to chemist. Do this by either giving them drinkable strength + speed pots or permanent speed + strength.
    2. Keep buffs the same, but if the chemist dies/respawns, the buffs are removed.
    3. Have a constant aura around the chemist, say 5 blocks, which gives nearby players buffs as long as they're in that radius.
    4. Make buffs a drinkable pot (only one). When you drink it, it gives teammates buffs as long as they're within the 12 blocks of the chemist. It would last for 30 seconds, and after the 30 seconds, it takes 5-10 seconds for the potion to replenish.

    Obviously the numbers are subject to change. Please legitimately consider all of these ideas. I understand buffs are a staple to the ctf meta, but I believe it is a bad staple due to the reasons I mentioned above, as well as numerous other reasons. (These are just my thoughts and are not endorsed by the CTF staff team).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #1 Ninsanity, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  2. Dequoy

    Dequoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +50
    Interesting thought...because you're right. Many people do only play chemist to buff other players, often right near spawn (myself included, in fact...chemist being an early purchase choice with credits over other classes because it helps the whole team rather than just being for "me"). Here's an option that is a bit different from the ones you've suggested, and is likely far easier to implement for testing, and it has at least a chance at solving part of the issues you mentioned:

    Cutting down the duration of the strength & speed potion would increase the reliance on a chemist within reach. If the buffs only lasted 1 minute or less, for example, it would give enhancements but only for as far away as the class can go within a period of time. Granted, this would give advantages to the mobile classes, but it would simultaneously encourage players to stick with chemist as their class of choice to help their team defend against buffed mobile classes. Maybe the total number of buff potions could be increased to compensate and balance, or perhaps not so that medics (and engineer cakes) gain a greater demand.

    Always seems tricky to consider changes and their "PROSequences and CONSequences"... I'm sure many would complain about having short-lived buffs when having to run across the map when a spawn-buffed ninja can be buffed in an enemy flag room pretty soon after. Though, buffed heavies ARE quite a force to be reckoned with when they have a chance to get close enough to their opponents, so having chemist buffs continue as they are now is definitely something that can be improved.


    As for your ideas, here are some quick thoughts on what I predict might happen if each were to happen:

    1. When buffs are chemist exclusive, their support role weakens a lot. Exploiting buffs at spawn would be gone, but fewer people would have interest in chemist - especially those who purchased chemist first because their main was medic and they love helping others more than seeking glory for themselves. Chemists could virtually benefit the exact same way from permanent buffs and not even have the potions for it at all.

    2. When buffs are removed upon the death of the chemist, this concept sounds very difficult to implement. There would be many things to keep track of, and perhaps an alert for all formerly buffed players that their chemist died. Also, if two or more chemists buff a player, which one would cause the effects to fade when killed? My guess is even if it was programmed in and functioned well, the former spawn chemists would evolve into engineer-camping buff dispensers most likely. They'd find a hub hiding spot with decent survivability to focus on staying alive rather than engaging. It would be a bit of a new niche, but it would probably be just as annoying to deal with.

    3. With a constant 5-block (or so) aura, chemists would be the best class to be the running flag carrier (perhaps even OP). It would make the most sense, because anyone nearby would get buffed and they'd have that incentive to stick around since the buffs would fade if they wander off. I suppose it could be like a chemical fragrance that enhances everyone around, ha. Other than that it doesn't really have a chemist-like reason for why it happens (not that CTF really needs any rhyme or reason, but sometimes it's fun to consider just because). This would definitely do away with spawn-only-chemists though.

    4. This one is my favorite suggestion you've proposed. It only effects teammates, which would be a bit different (no chance of accidentally buffing a hidden enemy ninja who decided to hang around the chemist's to-be-buffed teammates). The effects are shortened, so there's a good reason to keep the chemist within reach. And if the chemist stays near spawn, the buffs are too short-lived to be much use unless the chemist moves someplace more helpful/useful. Some still might buff at spawn and switch to another class right away, but it wouldn't be nearly as useful anymore (unless a flag carrier stays somewhat near their spawn during a stalemate match - but even that would happen after a flag carrier makes it that far, and that's not really as much of a "chemist issue" as it is of an overall "CTF issue" for stalemates, heh).
     
    #2 Dequoy, Dec 22, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  3. scapezar

    scapezar Ex-Ban/Appeal Manager | Ex-Hack Test Manager

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    Ratings:
    +453
    Discord:
    Jul13n#9311
    i was talking with nin about this before, forgot to mention some thoughts here

    i was on the line with some ideas like keeping it the same or until the chemist dies, but after having some more time to think and looking at the radius length in-game, tbh 8-10 block buff aura radius would look really great but to also add a lingering buff time effect like the elf water element, where if somebody walks out of the radius, they would receive like at least 10-15 seconds of those buffs until they go back inside the chemist aura
    --if the radius stays at 5 blocks, then id increase the buff time to at least 20-30 seconds

    (for the sake of consistency, the chemist buff pots can work the same for just the chemi him/herself, so that if the chemist isnt buffed, then there would be no buff aura - chemi buff pots could last 30 sec or a minute less, so afk chemists wouldnt be as much a thing)

    instead of wondering whether someone was buffed or assuming that every1 is buffed, this would put game strats and game balance into better perspective, as we move forward as well
     
    #3 scapezar, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Idea Tv back at it again with the pyro buffs! and chemist and heavy nerfs xd Capture the Flag Jan 15, 2017
Advanced Chemist Guide Guides Nov 2, 2021
Idea Chemist Buff indicators? Capture the Flag Dec 24, 2020
Idea Chemist Tweak Capture the Flag Oct 27, 2020
Idea Minecraft but Chemist is Tweaked Capture the Flag Oct 21, 2020
Thread Status:
Please be aware that this thread is more than 30 days old. Do not post unless the topic can still be discussed. Read more...