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Idea more necro stuff (rework) ft. Jake Paul

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by EmperorTrump45, Jun 1, 2019.

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  1. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    yoooooooo

    so i played Ctf for the first time in like 3 months (#activity) cause I wanted to see if Necro was still unholy garbage (spoiler: it is).

    The problem with current Necro and a bunch of other Necro reworks is that the class super slow paced and can't use any of its abilities quickly enough to actually do anything. It's also campy with mediocre stats (weaker than Soldier and Medic in the 1v1).

    ik there was an attempt to address this with the last Necro rework with the mob beacon mechanic. ngl it's cool that someone was even able to get the Necro beacon to be a thing but it's a really cheesy mechanic which doesn't really do much other than keep mobs from falling off the map or whatever. What I've tried to do in this rework is remove that issue while keeping the 'necrotic theme' of the class

    also this Necro would function as a cc-heavy battlemage, with an emphasis on defense and (maybe) recovery

    Necro

    Armor:

    Leather Helmet (black dyed)
    Chainmail Chestplate
    Leather Leggings (no dye)
    Iron Boots

    Items:

    Iron Sword
    3 Steak
    Wooden Stick (Quarterstaff)
    Bone (Staff of Death)
    Blaze Rod (Nether Rod)
    Gold Ingot (Soul Siphon)

    Passive:

    Touch of Death - any enemies attacked by the Necrosoldier are given the Touch of Death for 1.5 seconds. Enemies affected by Touch of Death take 3/4/5/6/7 full hearts bonus damage from all allied attacks - including Necro's - for the duration. Effect does not stack with subsequent Necro autos

    Abilities:

    The Narrow Corridor - Necro rightclicks his quarterstaff, releasing a projectile and creating a 3x4 rectangle of soulsand where it lands. Any enemies trapped in the soulsand are rooted for its duration (unless they happen to escape beforehand). This prevents things like:
    • Ninja teleport
    • Soldier wallclimb
    • Elf wind element
    • Scout’s Switch ability
    • Sponges
    • Sprinting/Sprint jumping
    • Any and all forms of jumping, flying, or teleporting not previously mentioned
    Speed boosts are not affected and soulsand cannot be used on enemy/ally spawns for spawnkilling or trolling. Soulsand lasts for 2 seconds. 8 second cooldown

    Summon the Dead - Necro rightclicks his Staff of Death, releasing a projectile and spawning a Necrosoldier, a zombie pigman with speed 3 (up to 2 at any given time). The Necrosoldiers exist for 6 seconds and will attack whoever Necro attacks, exploding when within 4 blocks of an enemy champion. If Necrosoldiers are within 4 blocks of enemies when spawned they will explode instantly. Targets affected by the explosion take no damage and are disarmed (cannot attack or use any damaging abilities) and given Touch of Death for 1.5 seconds. Necrosoldiers have 1 full heart of health each. 6 second cooldown

    Soul Siphon - Necro rightclicks his Soul Siphon, releasing a projectile and marking the target enemy for 7 seconds. If the enemy dies during that timespan it permanently increases (until the Necro dies) the damage from Touch of Death by 1 full heart per kill. Every 4 kills Necro can spawn one additional necrosoldier (capped at 4). 5 second cooldown

    Realm of Death - Necro rightclicks his Nether Rod, shooting a projectile in any direction. The projectile explodes, generating a temporary 4x4 ring of fire and turning everything within into a Nether-esque hellscape. Any targets who pass through the ring take wither 3 for 2 seconds - healing Necro for that amount. Realm of Death lasts for 2.5 seconds. 10 second cooldown
     
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    #1 EmperorTrump45, Jun 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  2. TheDCSportsGirl

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    Very in-depth! I like it.



    I have a few questions. These are mostly for clarification, just because there seem to be a few gaps that I'd like to clean up for the sake of my own understanding.


    Does this mean every 4th attack (i.e. attack #1, 4, 7, etc.)? Does this only apply to a single target or to whichever target happens to take said 4th attack (i.e. can you hit someone to get the buff then hit someone else?). Also, and I know this has to do with the soul siphon ability you mentioned later, but does the bonus damage increase every 4th attack (as mentioned above), or does it only increase when used within the context of soul siphon?

    I'm just going to assume this means that the soul sand has some sort of set travel time or input delay, because otherwise there would be no possible way to "escape beforehand," because you'd just end up trapped immediately. I'd really like to see it go forward like a projectile—so that it proceeds like a wave and makes it so that the necro's stun is easier to hit at close range (while also being riskier due to the close-combat nature of nearly every other class).

    Does it deal knockback? This is very relevant to the balance of the ability. Every other class with a longer range knockback ability uses it to vastly improve its chances in PvP: archer's bow, chemist's damage pots, ninja's eggs, etc.

    I'm assuming this means the cap starts at 2 and can be increased up to 4, yes? If so, very nice synergy with the passive and soul siphon.



    I have some concerns, too, if you don't mind.


    If we simplify this to remove variables such as whether an enemy decides to kill the Necrosoldiers, this is 60% uptime on a single Necrosoldier. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but considering that the ability synergizes so well with almost all of the other tools available to the Necro, it seems incredibly dangerous. If you put this in different terms, it seems very very powerful: I see this as a passive that isn't active for 2 seconds every 5 seconds. In those terms, it's like a damage reduction that exists 60% of the time, in addition to increasing the potency of Necro's already existing passive, and if the mob deals knockback as well, it even helps with PvP.
    This brings up a conceptual conflict, as well. Considering the support for an additional Necrosoldier, as well as 2 extras with the help of soul siphon's synergy, it seems odd that it would disappear before the ability comes off cooldown at all.
    A simple solution is to make the Necrosoldiers less powerful overall, but allow for higher uptime by giving it "charges" that regenerate (as opposed to a cooldown), similar to medic webs. This means that there's more room to decide how to use them, and also allows for potentially powerful plays at the cost of not having a Necrosoldier off cooldown when you might need it. If, for example, you change the damage reduction to 20% per Necrosoldier, you can have 3 at once and only take 40% damage. On the other hand, you won't have them available later for more reactive plays, and as such it allows for a lot more depth.

    One general concern I have is that Necro right now seems very powerful in terms of its role flexibility.

    By this I mean that Necro in this iteration has a lot of synergy with its passive in addition to having other independent abilities that require no mixed synergy.
    For example, the combination of the narrow corridor ability and realm of death ability seems powerful. They also don't make use of the passive or the other two abilities. In turn, the passive, soul siphon, and necrosoldier abilities don't synergize with the aforementioned two abilities.
    That isn't to say some classes can't be generic or flexible, but the result is two overwhelming complex (and powerful!) ideas that seem to give necro an identity crisis.
    If the idea is to allow necro to make use of crowd control, like you said, that's fine, and the two abilities I mentioned earlier seem to do that well. If necro's purpose for you is to stack benefits on kills, then by all means, try your hardest to balance a snowballing mechanic. But a class with two separate focuses will always be extremely difficult to balance, understand, and play effectively.
    It's important to note that any class with an extreme level of flexibility is a must-have except in extreme cases. (Buffed heavy on any map that isn't heavily soldier biased. Medic literally everywhere because it works literally everywhere, not to mention being the only major support. You get the point.) So to effectively balance this rework in terms of flexibility, I'd personally focus on a single aspect to explore further, then make that more powerful overall and also refine it so that it has room for misplays and smart plays.



    Sorry this reply was so long; I spent an hour and a half making sure I got my ideas out. If anything, it just means your rework is so in-depth and detailed and thought-out that I had to write all this just to address a few points, and that's definitely not a bad thing!
    If I got anything wrong, or if you disagree with point I made, please feel free to let me know.
     
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  3. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    yoooo i didn't ****in reply to this

    so im like, replying to it now. yeeeeeeeeeeeeet

    Thanks I like it too

    more like a few paragraphs like holy sh*t :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    yep yep

    It's the 1st and 4th attacks on a single target who has been affected by Touch of Death. If you apply Touch of Death to two targets and auto one target 3 times it still counts as the '1st auto' if you then attack the second target. And no the bonus damage is the same for the 1st and 4th attacks

    That said I might alter this mechanic to make Necro solely a ranged class - rather than having hybrid ranged melee abilities. The side goal being to remove damage and add ranged utility that'd work better with the other half of the kit. What do you think about this?

    Agreed. That would both increase its synergy with Realm of Death (both could be used as ranged abilities) and, as you said, make Necro much easier to punish at short range

    Necrosoldiers do not apply knockback

    Yes. But only 2 Necrosoldiers may be spawned at any time. If you have collected 4 'souls' then you can spawn 2 Necrosoldiers (and have 2 remaining).

    yep

    Fixed. Also I've removed the damage reduction and replaced it with an AoE disarm. What do you think about this?

    Agreed. That's why I've decided to focus on the support/cc aspects while removing some of the damage
     
    #3 EmperorTrump45, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  4. TheDCSportsGirl

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    Seems like a very interesting CC idea.
    I don't know how you'll go about it, but it's interesting to note that if you only do swords, the power level of mage stays the same, while archer is still slightly able to defend itself.

    Sorry for the long response last time, I kept it brief this time, just for you. <3
     
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