Are the Grenades AIDS?

yea whenever i fight an engineer it makes me throw up in my mouth. the grenades are literally just free kills. all they do it run while its on cooldown, and turn and shoot. repeat. repeat. repeat. you should have to like sit still and crouch for a second to charge the grenade, then you would be able to throw it. then it would stop everyone from just running and shooting.

 

I find that using the TNT to propel myself towards the running engineer helps me catch up and kill them quicker. But this is only when I’m using chemist/tankier classes with a speed potion effects.

When I’m in a scenario where it’s a 3v1 or more, however, I do find myself primarily dying to the engineer if an engineer intervenes/is involved due to the pure damage of the explosion.

Edit: by Tanky classes I meant classes where healing is more readily available and in abundance

 

Yes new engineer might be too powerful, the tnts deal way too much damage and have very little cooldown, and moreover, it gets a lot of kills in team fights because it deals 4 hearts of damage and doesn't "wait" for the hit delay (in a pvp situation against several opponents, you don't get hit a billion times per second, only one of them hits you and then after a period another one does, but not with the tnt). Therefore, the enemies are not prepared to tank 4 hearts at each time (they are often between 2 and 8 hearts) and often happen to die.

 

As usual, it requires zero skill. And get a group of engineers in one place and it's ****ing stupid.

 

lul engineer is allowed to be forever stupid while necro is allowed to be forever bad

this is when i remember that i bought, with real money, necro instead of engineer

 

Probably could have just done something different with the turrets, like “make them have a timer before they despawn” or “make the turrets easier to destroy”. That makes more sense to me than the grenades

 

Sounds boring to me personally, no offence. The grenade launcher introduced something fresh. Yes, perhaps it's not Engineer-like and it could've been put into a new 'Demo' class or whatever, but that's not the point here. This rework, especially the grenade launcher, made me more interested in playing Engineer and I'm sure it interested others too. I never played Engineer before and I doubt changes to the turret would interest me. It's something fresh.

 

The Grenade Launcher is interesting to say the least. There have been many complaints about it being on the wrong class, or the fact that it stuns mobility pretty heavily (TNT coupled with Engineer's nigh infinite Speed II makes the class very hard to outrun, especially evident when capping). The pickaxe retaining its knockback enchantment couples even better with it. I personally don't see much wrong with the grenades; they are a very fresh and new concept that is much better than the turret in a gamemode like CTF.

It is important to note that Engineer's pickaxe received a damage nerf recently, doing a fairly small +5 attack damage. This, coupled with the inability to block, means that the damage values of TNT are more justified. The skill cap on the Launcher is pretty low, very easy to pick up on (making it slightly contradictory to the name of the class "Engineer", but skill cap is not a big issue imo).

One thing I could potentially see in the future is bouncing grenades off of walls to get bonus damage and make trickshots more rewarding (@ExtremeEvoboost). Another possible balance change would be recoil damage to the Engineer if they detonate the TNT too close to themselves (not 4 whopping hearts, but at least a bit of damage). The reworked Engineer is still very new and TNT could definitely see some slight tweaks, but for now it's very nice at fulfilling an AoE role CTF has been lacking since Earth Element was removed.

 

just get good lol

 

Things can be fresh and interesting and still broken, overpowered, or really annoying.

 

I dunno if the problem is the grenades per se, just the grenades combined with Speed II, kb, healing, everything else. (The pickaxe nerf is just an insult because the only thing It can do now is knock people around with the damage of an inflatable tube). Doesn’t help that due to the nature of the speed II thing and how short it usually lasts as a support tool, engies are VERY greedy with it (recalling it the second they get the chance to refill their speed in a chase) which never was a problem with the *pressure plate* teleporter, But thats off topic.

The Grenades themselves could use a very slight nerf (fuse time=damage) in that the longer the grenade is registered as an entity the damage will ramp up from a pitiful 1heart of true damage to the max of 5, so detonating it in your face will accomplish very little but your rewarded for really long range or ballsy shots.

(The main reason the grenades are so powerful is unlike every other projectile in the game, they aren’t blocked by your own teammates so they can actually be used in the flagroom pretty decently.)

Oh yeah also buff the regenerator so it can actually serve its support role pls thx

Edit: Versions said my (now underlined) GL idea was tested & failed, ignore that.

 

Well I don't believe the grenade launcher is broken. Sure it may be annoying, but so are many things in this game. We can't have everything to be perfect unfortunately.

 

Saying something being annoying is fine because other things are annoying is a logical fallacy. Other things being annoying isn’t a justification.

 

Archer headshot seems annoying to most people. Mage constantly bashing you with its spells is annoying. Scout swapping you into the void is annoying. Engineer TNT is annoying. I could go on and on about annoyances in the game. Personally, I think most of these things are what keeps the game healthy, regardless of if they're annoying or not, unless they are ridiculously broken. The grenade launcher isn't ridiculously broken otherwise we would have dealt with it already. It is an annoyance, but you can deal with the Engineer releasing its grenades fairly easily I would say.

Perhaps the grenade launcher could do with some tweaking, yes, I am not against that. We have tried to implement the nerf to the grenade launcher that @ExtremeEvoboost suggested, but we deemed that it would be useless in close combat as it would deal zero damage. It's not what you would expect when you launch a TNT at your enemy. It's unfortunate as it did sound like a decent nerf, but didn't seem to work out well, which is why we won't be doing that.

If there are any other suggestions for an Engineer TNT nerf, we'll consider them.

 

Let's get some context rolling. We're talking about a team videogame, something that literally any facet of can be called annoying because every player has their own unique perspective depending on their thought process and role during gameplay. Some of these classes, such as mage, are built around fulfilling a role that is truly enraging (stall / separation) in almost every other team game out there. In some situations, things are determined to be too annoying / gamebreaking, but that is hardly any situation atm. The main question people should be asking is if Engineer fulfills the role it is designed to do (and if it does that too well) rather than "is it annoying while it does that?"

 

If its role is still to be a support class, then no. Its speed pad might as well just be an assassin speed boost with how most engineers use it and its Regenerator is outshined by Mage (higher heal rate, lower recharge time) Elf, (Basically the same thing but at a long range & it can stop pyros & it gives resistance) & to a lesser extent Chemist. (less duration but more on demand) with its one unique ability to remove death tags we’ll not see the full viability of for a long time still, but I’d personally argue that giving it that small bonus does not make it better than Elf, a class that is used for capping, or chemist, a class that is used for capping.

Point is its support abilities are outshined by The Almighty Grenade Launcher


On a lesser note I’d really like to see another dedicated support class besides medic & maybe mage.