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Complete Holy Faith

Discussion in 'Map Submissions' started by redboo123, May 30, 2020.

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  1. redboo123

    redboo123 Well-Known Member

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    CTF Map Submission

    Map Name: Holy Faith
    Map ID: 440447
    Style: Edgy (according to puhdgy)
    Creator(s): redboo123, Daveeeeeeeee, Pizze, (a little bit of mikye as well)
    Time of Day: Midnight
    Configured (yes/no): yes
    Number of Caps: 3
    Pictures:
    Click to view imgur album!



    short description about our map:
    so unholy faith was straight up dog**** all of its 5 variations or whatever, sorry to all of you map makers but you never tried to make this less archer op and you kept forcing people on the middle path which was unhealthy, unfun and boring with all these inconsistent sponges.

    main changes:
    • added sponge at spawn that lands on a side path (new), spotlight is on the sides now and not the cluster mid we all knew
    • spikes have been added as an alternative to trees that fits the theme and prevent archers brainless headshotting
    • flagroom has been slightly buffed for defense (just shrunk it a little) since some might consider this an "offense" biased map (pictures not included so do yourself a favour and enjoy the eye candy of our map)
    • new sponges are introduced that get in the flagroom build
    • flagroom build has been lowered to make it easier to access by all classes (mid has also been lowered and path added from lower level to it)
    • most spikes are reachable by all classes
    • underground has been tweaked because it felt too spongey as mentioned in the imgur album, but also to reduce the effectiveness of the route since it's "too safe"
    i think that's all folks, this rework is based on unholy faith V, i can't blame the map makers, i'm sure they tried their best, we just took it to another level, thanks for coming to my ted talk
     
    • Like Like x 4
    #1 redboo123, May 30, 2020
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  2. sateburger

    sateburger Active Member

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    This is honestly the best map I have ever seen in my entire pathetic life! (with the exception of Skytown ofcourse)

    Everything that made Unholy Faith a bad map has been fixed or improved.
    You even added more stuff to make the gameplay more fun, and it looks super sexy.

    Well done dude, hope it gets in rotation (can't imagine why it wouldn't)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #2 sateburger, May 30, 2020
  3. Daveeeeeeeee

    Daveeeeeeeee Well-Known Member

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    Really nice map, seems like a lot of thought and time was put into this. Really good job redboo!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #3 Daveeeeeeeee, May 30, 2020
  4. redboo123

    redboo123 Well-Known Member

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    just realized screenies are too dark, will hotfix in ~5hrs, until then, log on build ☺️
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #4 redboo123, May 30, 2020
  5. Zarpin

    Zarpin #1 6ᴏʙʙʏ ꜰᴀɴ & ʙʀᴀᴡʟ ᴠᴏᴛᴇʀ (◕︵◕)

    Joined:
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    Discord:
    zarpin#5115
    I like the aesthetic, design, and vibe of the map. Really nice!
     
    #5 Zarpin, May 31, 2020
  6. abrakadabrax

    abrakadabrax Active Member

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    sup redboo123. I got a couple concerns that you gotta hotfix like the pitchblack screenshots.

    in the ctf box, id switch up the order of the signs. put R on L, L on M and M on R. I read the middle sign first, and that sign is just about someone that isnt relevant at all for the map.

    you could cover up the sponges with yellow wool that would look better imo.

    id like to see that theres less dirt and more coal ore on the side of the map around the typical holding spot right above spawn so its easier to voidswap soldiers.
    you know how archers can shoot the flag carrier in the typical holding spot from across spawn? maybe add a little pedestal for archers to sit on so they get a better angle.

    regarding the ladders you added in the front wing of the bases, i find it difficult to go down the ladder because I press W to dodge the sponges too early, causing me to go upward. you could put water there mayhaps, similarly to the sponges near sponge to go up the building.

    with offense now always having to walk from mid to enemy base, the options you have are more limited. going upper mid is now not viable because you will be too close by spawn / in the path of enemy offense and you cant speed past with the sponge anymore. below mid and lower far are still okay. but you lost upper mid. upper far, around the edge of the map, was never used much and with ninjas not going upper mid no more, they will focus upper far better. its easy to get knocked off upper far. its especially easy because you the road is higher than the edge edge of the map. the opposite of blackout. change that **** bruv. make the road a slab lower instead of a slab higher.

    besides these suggestions, the map looks rad. colour scheme is epic. pathing is solid. less archer biased. the bases are a good chunk lower. capping feels a ton easier with all those new and changed routes into the flagroom. I love the horizontal sponge in front of spawn and the platform it launches you to. good **** redboo123.

    one more thing! the "recovery sponge" is seems fine for flag carrier pathing too if you just take the upward sponge right by it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #6 abrakadabrax, May 31, 2020
  7. redboo123

    redboo123 Well-Known Member

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    sounds good i will probably do that, since recovery is what concerns most people for this map

    not sure what you mean here, mind elaborating? what spot do you mean? use screens or @me on discord so i can hop on build so you can show me

    if you're talking about that small entrance on the front of the building, ladders are intentional so the hole cannot be used as an exit

    going upper mid is still viable, it's not going to be cluttered like before since the addition of that new piece of land the spawn sponge sends you to, you can also dodge most people by going around spikes, mid underground, side hills, and lower level land are also viable so that makes around 4 off routes. you are not going to run into "enemy offense" since they will probably use sponge at spawn.

    not going to lie, hadn't thought of that before, but now that i think of it, i think it should remain as it is because as i mentioned, recovery is the main concern for most people, i would like recovery to have more options even if that is knocking people off the map, by the way, it's not like anyone forces you to go on that dangerous path. however if more people agree to the slab change, i will happily change it, don't forget unholy faith always had slabs on top of road and not "dug in".

    thanks for the feedback, if more people agree to any of the points you made, i will make sure to tweak. i'm changing the less dirt/more coal on sides though
     
    #7 redboo123, May 31, 2020
  8. abrakadabrax

    abrakadabrax Active Member

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    I see the intention now. Agreed.
     
    #8 abrakadabrax, May 31, 2020
  9. mikye

    mikye Well-Known Member

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    This map is so good wtf put it in rotation :innocent:
     
    #9 mikye, May 31, 2020
  10. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    This map is definitely an improvement to the rotation version of Unholy Faith, but there are still some issues with it.

    The number one biggest issue for me is just how many different routes there are. Here's a quick illustration of most of the routes you can go on this map:

    upload_2020-6-1_21-33-24.png

    I have probably missed a bunch since I admittedly got bored towards the end, but hopefully you get my point. It should be possible for people to be able to know every different route and passageway on a map after playing it 4 or 5 times. It's very complicated and difficult to memorise the layout of this map, especially for people who only play CTF a couple of times a week and may only play your map twice a month.

    There are also some sponges that don't work well:

    It's easy to hit your head going off of this sponge:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    For reference, going off of it this far to the right will cause you to hit your head:
    [​IMG]

    If you do hit your head, you need to climb up part of the hill. Sponge should be moved further to the left or the spike should be moved further to the right.
    This sponge doesn't take you to the top of the spike, so if you want to attack someone who's standing up there you need to climb up it a little bit.

    [​IMG]

    Should be a sponge that sends you straight up, high enough so you can land at the top of the spike.
    This happens too often:



    It's easy to avoid if you know it happens, but ideally there shouldn't be any prior knowledge of a sponge to be able to go off it properly.
     
    • Like Like x 1
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    #10 SoCool21, Jun 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  11. redboo123

    redboo123 Well-Known Member

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    thanks for taking the time to review my map, fixed some things
    not gonna lie you are a scam artist, xaxaxaxa
    the way you painted the routes is funny, if you used different colours for each "route", you would notice that there are 5 tops, atleast 5 main ones, if not less, anyway, it's the first time i hear this argument and after discussing it with some other ctfers i realized that multiple routes are a blessing. on a side note, routes are way too clear and feel natural, navigation-wise. no one is going to get lost. i could add some signs if you feel lost in the map. i have barely added any routes other than one that HAD to be done which was the main point of the rework (talking about the piece of land that you get launched to, from the spawn sponge), adding a piece of land there would only make the map to have 3 more routes, 2 on the sides of it, and 1 the new terrain (referred to as piece of land) itself
    fixed, thank you

    sort of intentional to prevent archers from getting to top easily and being too dominant, change still? not sure about it, however i did lower the end of the mid spike by like 2-3 blocks

    fixed, thank you
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #11 redboo123, Jun 1, 2020
  12. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

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    I'm not concerned about getting lost, but having so many different routes makes it far harder for recovery to find offence. If I'm in one of the many routes that aren't considered a "main" route, it'll be difficult for recovery to know exactly where I am. It also makes the map far harder to come up with good capping routes, since there are so many different routes to consider.

    Multiple routes are definitely important as otherwise you'll get chokepoints, but too many routes cause issues too IMO. Unholy Faith V currently has the same issue - but it's not quite as bad, as it has less routes and the map is more open overall. The routes on this version of the map are more confusing.

    Yeah, I'd still change IMO. It won't do much to stop archers from getting to the top since it only takes a few seconds to climb up - it'll mostly be a pain for trying to get up there to kill a soldier capper.
     
    #12 SoCool21, Jun 2, 2020
  13. Salty_Ivan

    Salty_Ivan Well-Known Member

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    Discord:
    Whale#7514
    + I like the lower elevation of the entire map, makes it less annoying for classes without mobility to get around.
    + Great job changing the playstyle of the map to be way less focused on the centre and the sponges previously there. Added a lot more paths for different classes to take.
    + Less archer OP!
    + Very unique aesthetic, unlike any other CTF map.
    + The middle tunnel looks incredible with the glass panes.
    + Improved flag building, much lower and more ways to get up top.
    + I like the spawn in sponge so it can't be abused by offence.
    - Everything on the map looks very similar and it's easy for new players to get lost in the tunnels or on some of the lower paths.
    - The number of paths you are able to take makes defence/recovery very focused on the flag building, and once any carriers get out, it's somewhat difficult for recovery to find them and kill them, assuming they get support. On my second look however, you can tell there's a LOT more paths right in front of spawn than once you pass mid. If you look from the top of your base towards the other base, there's a cluster**** on the right in front of spawn (including the really long tunnel) and few paths on the left. That's not too too bad but the cluster**** on the right seems a bit unnecessary. (The spawn sponge makes it even more unnecessary).
    - The flagroom is a bit enclosed, but that's alright given how difficult recovery is once the carrier gets out.
    - The spikes can give a huge advantage to Soldier still as many don't have sponges to get up to the top.
    - Some of the tunnels are incredibly op for stalemates, especially the little section with the sponge coming out of the spike to the right of spawn (if you sit in there and F5). The tunnel going up the middle of the base is good too if you stand in the middle of it, and would be better if not for that sponge in there.

    Potential Changes:
    > Perhaps remove one of the paths in front of spawn (the cluster****) and add a passageway through the giant spike on the other side.
    > Make the flagroom a little less Dwarf-friendly. I feel like if you punch out the glass at the back and remove/adjust the sponge that takes you immediately to the back of the base (and the one going up from the bottom), it could be a pretty fun map to cap on.
    > The sponge going up to the new mid sponges is very close to the mid sponge, perhaps move it to the other side of the spike. I don't know how to explain it well but generally you don't want carriers 'chaining' sponges. This would also put it closer to the base.
    > Nerf the spawn sponge.
    > Try to make stalemates not as difficult to break on the map.
     
    #13 Salty_Ivan, Jun 26, 2020
  14. redboo123

    redboo123 Well-Known Member

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    thanks for feedback,
    i explained many things over my initial post on why that X thing was implemented such as, the "shrinkage" of the flagroom. map is overall off biased yeah thus the spawn sponge which is not getting changed. also the "chain sponging" you mentioned is really worthless since you could be at the flagroom much faster if you dont take that side sponge (only gives recovery much more time if someones goes to side, also dont forget that if a carrier takes that "side sponge" they will be on the main route for the enemy teams offenders so they may run in trouble).

    when i asked people about the caves they said it is good keeping them because they are a good spot for stalemates. i bent the tunnel entrance behind spawn so the cave is actually hsable from the back of the FR building, but the other "horizontal" exit spike you mentioned is up to the people if they want or not, but people said to keep.

    since two of you have officially stated that the map can get a little confusing, mind suggesting an idea instead of simply pointing out , the introduction of the new terrain infront of spawn has created more routes, i could fill the side of it so there is not a path there but i will see

    also what sort of passageway did you mean?
    oh and sponges that get to the flagroom are staying because the reason of the rework was to make unholy faith a playable map for offense, the more options the offenders have, the better :smile:)

    sorry for the lazy formatting on phone, wrote this while taking a poopoo @Salty_Ivan Thanks for the feedback again !!!
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    #14 redboo123, Jun 28, 2020
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