On: Instant Kills

Skill is important when CTF is regarded as a competitive game. It'd be less of an issue if CTF was just a random casual game but when you get to the point where there are official team matches you want the classes to reward teamwork and skill.

It's not noob friendly because most of the time the noobs are the ones getting killed. The only free class they have is Archer. And many noobs dont want to just camp and shoot unless they want ease kills.

Because it means that a job 2-3 people could do is taken up by 1 person, which takes away from teamwork.

Instakills are bad because they are a unfair solution to balancing broken classes. The instakills are there because the other classes are at fault.

 

You make a lot of good points. I'm gonna speak about archer just because I know the most about this class. I do agree that archer itself should be more balanced, because at the moment it is undoubtedly overpowered, if not to the extent of some of the other classes. My problem with replacing the instakill on archer comes with what to replace it with. One of the popular ideas to replace archer comes from distance doing more damage, but this really wouldn't solve a lot. I mean you could make it so the instakill would be over the distance it is now, but nevertheless would still not solve the problem. Alternatively, there are more drastic reworks including one recently by @Webmant. I disagreed with that particular rework because it effectively changed archer into a group camping class, with the added ability to slow blind and nauseate people. In short, I haven't seen an effective rework of archer, aside from ones which wouldn't be very effective or those which change the point of the class entirely. If archer is to be rebalanced without an instakill, it needs to still be able to play its role (ie counter everything long ranged and be countered short range). This has already been proven by many ineffective reworks that this is very difficult to do.

Archer already has an instakill counter in that of elf's projectile shield and a block in terms of dwarf shielding. These classes are obviously broken at the moment and in the case of elf need to be changed in order to perform the role it was designed for effectively. This just compounds the idea that if we're going to rework the instakill classes, we should also be thinking about reworking the other classes simultaneously. If we don't it will only mean that, as already said, the problem will be passed along to the next thing that needs fixing, as removing that instakill has made another class overpowered. As already stated, this is going to be difficult to achieve. We can debate the issue of instakills as much as we want, but unless we can find a viable solution which would keep the classes which currently have instakills fairly balanced and doing their job effectively, we are going to make the game even more unbalanced than it already is by removing them.

 

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TL;DR

@LennyFace I agree c:

 

Was this necessary?

Still, let me summ the argument up for you in a few words.

Side for instakills: instakills be gooder than no instakills.

Side against instakills: no, no instakills be gooder than instakills.

 

I was dumbing it down.

Was teletubbies really that stupid? Damn it's been years since I've seen it.

 

You know, I didn't bother reading all of the stuff after that, either. ^_^ I am by no means offended, would like to thank you for your consideration anyhow, though. What I am wondering about, however, is the point of the post and the following discussion.

@BAWSS5 Thank you very much! I did not complain about the complexity of the text, though.

 

That's what TL,DR means. It was too long, and as such you didn't read it, instead feeling the need to comment that you couldn't be bothered to read anything in the thread.

It's not a criticism leveled at the thread so much as it makes you look kind of like a dumbass.

 

You have a good point I wandered slightly off topic, but the fact is without a suitable fix to a class without the instakill, you risk making ctf even more unbalanced, which is something nobody wants! With that said, as for my opinion on the subject, I would prefer for archer itself to become balanced with instakills, just to make it closer to the old archer, the class I've grown to love so much. That said, if the rework keeps the main role of archer intact whilst balancing it, then I would be happy knowing it is fair. I'd hope the same of the other instakill classes too

 

Hey, you admit archer is OP! Ai like it, but also agree with you in that I have now idea on how to replace it. However, the problem lies in it's role. Archer is a long range class in a primarily melee game, and is the only one. Mage, Elf, and Engineer are all mid-ranged classes. This makes it incredibly hard to balance at long range and still keep it's job. tbh, it would be easier to make archer more of a mid-range class focused around kiting and speed rather then keep it's current role.

You're right, insta-kills are not the only thing broken with CTF. But they are at the heart of the problem, since they were the first band-aid fix that CTF has, and removing them would be a huge step. And yur right, good reworks would need to be put in play.

 

I like to think that most of the good archers recognize that archer's quite powerful. It's kind of hard to deny.

The thing about instakills is that they're a bandaid that's been covered by other bandaids. You can't just take that one off without either taking off all the ones on top one by one, or all at once. Due to how much they balance out heavy, chemist, dwarf, soldier, etc, you'd have to have a contingency plan in place to fix those classes at the same time.

 

I agree, removing instakills is like remove a bandage off of a flesh wound. It's gonna get infected and going to be harder to fix than surgically buffing and nerfing a few classes

 

If they removed instakills assassin would be useless. And pyro would need a major buff. You bring up many good points, and I agree with you. But in order to remove instakills heavy and chemist would be op. Check out my post about a pyro rework that will balance a lot. Also I think your halarious on the forums! It's why I follow u lol

 

If you read most of our posts you should have noticed we mentioned that removing instakills doesn't mean there is no replacement and to remove instakills required a massive restructuring of CTFs terrible balance system itself.

 

My only issue with reworking archer so that it becomes a mid range class, is that the very premise of the archer title should mean that it is supposed to be long range. It's all very well and good suggesting that archer should be mid range with gameplay reworks, but in reality, thematically it would make more sense for it to be a long range class. If it were to be reworked to this aim, the staff really do have to be careful to keep the premise of the idea of an archer intact, or you instead change the class into something that doesn't really perform like an archer. With that said, making it based around speed and kiting is quite a good idea, after all archer was never really designed with the aim to camp