Heavy Buff

The only buff Heavy needs is the nerf of other classes (which would mean the removing of instakills). In my opinion, Heavy should be the standard by which other classes are to be compared to in order to see balance. A good example is Heavy vs. Chemist. A Chemist compared to a Heavy shows just how overpowered Chemist is. Taking into account the Chemist's healing and buff potions, we see the Chemist capable of taking more damage total than Heavy, dealing more damage per sword hit than Heavy, moving faster than Heavy, takes no damage from fire, and easily escapes Pyro (Speed I and Fire Resistance), with the only bad thing being extra damage from Archers (which, if Chemist is played in its proper locations, could be easily avoided). Now, you take into account their other potions, and you will see Chemist even more overpowered with true damage Poison (which also slows down enemies with damage knockback per Poison tick) and Damage potions cutting through armor, while at the same time, using his sword to cut down lower armor classes with ease. Anyways, Heavy truly doesn't need a buff. It is simple to play and is unique in its lacking of uniqueness (which makes it stand out greatly in a gamemode where every class has a unique ability or feature). Besides, if you play Heavy, you will see it impossible to not get 1 kill for each death.

 

Heavy is made for simple PvP. And it's massive bulk + strong sword + ability to heal x12 hearts is good enough. Although I do like your concept, but having a basic class is just as good as a complicated class.
A basic class has both neutral weaknesses and neutral strengths. While a complicated class has large strengths and large weaknesses.
Take Assassin's Assassinate for example: Strength = Ability to OHKO, Weakness = Ability to get OHKO'd
Elf's Shield: Strength = Ability to deflect projectiles, Weakness = Prevented movement & vulnerable to melee.
If new players see CTF as a complicated gamemode, they'll give up and quit.

 

well actually the dwarf is more boring u cant do sth just stay in def cause of your slowness
the heavy is like a fast dwarf who cant lvl up

1. yes they were heavy. what would be ctf without pvp. the best solution is a pvp class. heavy
2. it is. the chemistbuff gives u strengh and speed so u dont need so many hits to kill someone (like the ninja)
3. blocking is enought counter. if u r to slow than be more faster in blocking
4. if you let u hit from the arrow than ur most of the times death. the tactic is it not let u hit from him or his arrows. just train dont complain
5. i dont get it anymore. what do u want to say ????????

 

1. I agree Heavies are UP atm
2. Giving them no knockback is a nice idea, very well fitting the class. (@SoCool +1)
But we should keep in mind, that that alone is a very strong ability. I guess whoever fought an no-knockback hacker or an anchor has experienced that (btw just image the archer or mage crying lol).
Therefore imo that is already enough to buff heavy. Just imagine a Ninja-Heavy-Attack. The Ninja kills the pyro or at least distracts it long enough and the Heavy just forces his way to the flag. Since he takes no knockback he can smoothly pass through to the flag, tanking the damage. Not overpowered imo, but a pretty decent strategy. Now if you would make heavy being able to counter insta-kills, a fleet of heavies (even if they are all noobs) would be a nightmare.

My Summary: Giving the heavy no knockback should be fine

 

@SoCool The idea of heavy armor isn't vulnerability, it's having an alternate weakness. Heavies are subject to all forms of instakill (as long as they're surprised by assassins), and three steaks is a deserved low number of health boosts for PvP considering its full diamond armor.

I internally laughed when you said chemist is OP against heavy. Mind you heavies can kill chemists very easily if they deal enough damage quickly; it really drains the chemist's heal pots. An "OP" chemist has a similar concept to the archer controversy: it takes training and skill to become like that, and people seem to only notice or focus on those skillful people.

Anyway... Addressing both of you now, the main reason I'd agree with a heavy tweak/rework is because of its great vulnerability to instakills. It'd have to be a very minor buff though, otherwise @_TheSpirit_ is right, heavy storms would reek havoc in flag rooms; both on defense and offense.

 

What about archer. I can name numerous occasions when getting frustrated by heavy because I thought they were too fast. Archers have a good advantage. They have weak armor and soon as heavy is full diamond, they are really hard to beat. So heavy would be a silly class to add knock back, sorry but i don't see the logic, just my opinion. With the bow knockback, It's really useful. Maybe if there is a nerf take knockback down 1 but other than that i still disagree.

 

Blocking will be better for reducing the knockback, instead of a seperate ability. Heavy is the most simple class to use.

 

I internally laughed when you said that I said Chemist is OP against Heavy (although, any Chemist with half a brain should not be in any situation where a Heavy is to be draining their health pool, they should stay out of close corners and kite Heavies with Poison and Instant Damage, which makes any Heavy mince meat), when I actually said "A Chemist compared to a Heavy shows just how overpowered Chemist is." I suggested that comparing the strengths and weaknesses of both classes shows that, statistically, Chemist is OP. As I said, take the speed, damage per swing, and health pool of the Chemist and compare it to the Heavy (this is not even mentioning the damaging potions and fire resistance).

First time I played Chemist, I killed everyone standing in my way and had a flawless game. Although my own experiences aren't to talk for everyone, I suggest that it is a very easy class if you ever hotkeyed (which, if you played any competitive games like Quake Live among others, you would it quite pathetic even to have PvP, skill, and a class based around it, as it is one of the easiest and most basic part of gaming) before. I don't solely focus on skilled people either, and neither, would I presume, does the community (even though most skilled Chemist mains I have talked to agree heavily that Chemist is much too overpowered). I believe most people focus on the Chemists that take the flag, look straight down, and spam damage and healing potions. Chemist capping is pathetically easy and broken. I feel guilty to even type /chemist, as every time I do, I just find myself performing easy maneuvers and killing everyone quickly with my high damage output and deep health pool. On another note, Archer doesn't take much skill either, as random firing is pathetically easy, as well as bow mechanics are agreed to be easy to follow (many consider bows in games easy to learn, and overpowered if implemented to be too strong, as would be the case with an instakill in MCCTF).

 

What are you talking about? Heavy really is not overpowered. It can easily overpower any non-instakill class (including dwarf). I think heavy could be spiced up a bit, but not like this. This is pretty pointless, since it does not add to the tankiness of one of the only tank classes in the game. The problem with heavy not being a tank is instakills, and the lack of counters for them, not the fact that Heavy takes knockback. This change wouldn't add to gameplay at all, and would be extremely annoying to fight against.

 

Heavy does suffer from instakills greatly but a defensive heavy almost never comes across instakills. For now, heavy is a rather good class (contrary to popular belief) but doesn't have much appeal to use. Once the other classes are balanced out Heavy will eventually rise up to become a more viable class. If anything, heavy may need to be nerfed alongside with changes if they give Heavy too much power.

Seriously, a class with %80 defense is far from UP even if it isn't super useful.

 

@Webmant Whelp, my words are coming from a recently-gifted-and-started-training chemist, and most of my other experiences with chemist involve shooting at them with archer. /gj on your first chemist run; I'm not being sarcastic when I say it sounds impressive. But I still find heavy and chemist to be a balanced match.

Also, I'm aware this is extremely biased coming from an archer main, but I'm slightly offended when people throw around "easy" and "archer" in the same sentence. Whenever I claim "archer takes skill", I'm not referring to bowspamming noobs; my definition of archer is playing it right, shooting accurately and keeping my shots to a minimum. It just stings when a "broken" tag is slapped onto all archers in general.