Elf and Mage

I've never seen any comments other than this one on elf being useless. And mage is definitely annoying, but so is every single other class that you aren't playing. Elf's shield can be useful from what I've seen, and everything needs a counter. The solution to this was mage. And before you say 'mage could use a hard counter', consider pyro, archer, chemist, other mobile or fast classes that can successfuly dodge mage such as soldier, ninja or assassin. Mage is low on the priority class rework list because it isn't that big of a nuisance to deal with ingame. Plenty of people play elf and mage, and I very rarely see complaints over those classes (despite the typical 'that class is annoying', which, like I said, could be said for any class). This is one of the first I've seen, to be honest.

tl;dr: no

 

You have to be joking.

First off, let's look at mage's loadout.

• Long-range, easily spammable diamond sword spell with pretty good knockback.
• Flame spell, which is accurate, has a crazy range, and slows down enemies considerably.
• Freeze, which stops the enemy entirely and gives the mage room to move back.
• Lightning, which deals high damage and sends the enemy flying back
• Heal, which is Regen 4 or 5 for 5 seconds with a 10 second cooldown. You can have a ridiculously overpowered level of regen on you for half the time.

There is a counter. Just wait for the frickin thing to run out, or go into melee. It doesn't need that counter because that counter, realistically, will happen maybe once in 200 fights.

• Pyro can't do crap if it can't get close to an enemy.
• Chemist can't do crap if it can't get close to an enemy.
• Soldier can't do crap if it can't get close to an enemy.
• Ninja can get close, but just gets blown away by lightning immediately and has too low a health pool to survive 2 hits from a damage spell after that.
• Assassin can't do crap if it can't get close to an enemy.
• Archer is an outlier because it long-range instakills everything.

And in the case that any of these classes do get into close range, they find themselves fighting a class that can regenerate much faster than they can deal damage, and the mage will just blast them away with lightning anyway in a couple seconds (at most).

Yeah, an unkillable ranged tank that deals insane damage, has an unlimited health pool and 3 frickin ways of keeping enemies back isn't annoying at all.

I'm really not sure if you and I are playing the same game. Mage is probably complained about the most among regulars.

 

To build on what Muffles said, Ninja should be a counter. The trouble is, it's not. About 1 in 20 times, I will kill a Mage as Ninja. First, I have to pearl into them. Then, I somehow have to strafe and not get Lightninged. Then, I have to hit them without getting Frozen or knocked back. My only real option is to go after a distracted one with a pearl and invis from behind. A Ninja should not have to do that much work and risk that much to deal with a low-armoured class. Low-armoured classes are supposed to be its forte.

And Soldier, glad we got into this discussion. You can't do it as Soldier. It actually just can't be done. All it takes is a teeny weeny little bit of timing and prediction skill on the Mage's part, the sort any nub can pull off, and you don't stand a chance of ever getting near.

Assassin is better than most, but it gets 3-shotted by Mage, has to get close, and if it does activate Assassinate, welp, bai bai! You just died to literally any of the Mage's spells. Generally a Damage or a Lightning, but any of them works.

Chemist is just broken right now, so it really shouldn't come up in any discussion of inter-class balance. If it must, however, A Chemist/Mage duel lasts basically as long as the Chemist's Health pots, then the Chemi dies (Not that that's a short time, but that is not the point of discussion in this thread). The Mage has infinite health, only slightly less armour, and makes it very difficult for the Chemi to get near enough to hit it. And when it does, Lightning! (This just goes to show how broken Mage is ...)

Pyro has to get near enough, and if you mention the Bow, welp, let's look at the damage: Pyro's Bow does about 5 hearts to a Ninja, plus fire damage. This is nine hearts. A Mage takes about 7 on that hit. It then regens. Pyro draws bow back, gets hit by Damage, arrow misses. Rinse and repeat.

Archer is, as stated before, an outlier: it can deal with anybody at any range.

In short, yes, Edd's idea is a good one. I think it should be implemented. Mage does not need a buff, and Elf's shield is a good nerf for the arrow classes, one which should extend to the one that is arguably most broken. (Yes, more so than Archer.)

 

I would agree with this proposal but I've been played a lot of Elf lately, and honestly it's a lot of fun fighting Mages with this class, even knowing you'll still inevitably die... Anyway, I like predicting the shots, watching which spells are selected, fast hotkeying, etc. all to avoid being successfully struck by lightning. The challenge and fast gameplay makes it an amazing experience (for me at least.)

I agree Mage is horribly unbalanced, but I think the class itself should be changed instead of making the one fun ability Elf has less fun.

 

Mage is currently unbalanced, but its low armor makes it useless in melee. Mage has worse armor than Elf. We need classes that do good damage at close range and aren't able to have such high range because, let's face it, if we buff elf it'll be the new mage.

 

Elf can counter almost anything, but, you need to be pro at it.
Elf sword: Good against ninjas and assassins
Pure element: good against heavies, necros, engineers, medics, dwarves and chemists.
Earth element: good against soldiers and elves.
Wind element: escaping or reaching higher places.
Water element: good against pyros.
Elf Sheild: good against archers, mages and pyro...
But, it is sometimes difficult to do these things. I'm not saying it's a complete counter.

 

I find it funny that whenever someone is trying to argue a point, they don't acknowledge the faults in there point. For instance, when arguing if a class is overpowered, people will ONLY say what is good about that class, and if they do say anything that weakens the class exaggerate so these weaknesses seem non-existent. If you are going to argue about classes, give an honest assessment of that class.

 

Is your suggestion to remove them or just stating the kits are annoying?

 

You dont have to worry about Melee when nobody can get near you and you dont have to worry about armor if you regen faster than anybody can hit.

Ive seen many Elf posts but they aren't frequent because people expected Elf to be another throw in class that adds nothing to gameplay, and not too many Mage posts because most people accept that Mage is an unenjoyable class or are just completely wrong.

 

With all do respect, have you been living under a rock? Mage can easily kill an elf. The shield it has is pretty much useless against them. More and more people are playing mage since it's pretty much hard to kill in a 1v1 situation. No, mage has absolutely no counter except assassin, since you can't even get near it because of its arrows being spammed. Hell, it has an infinite health pool. I thought myself mage wasn't a big priority, but now, its up there with chemist and pyro in my opinion.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear: I was agreeing Mage is OP, but stating that any buff to Elf's spells or abilities will make it more like Mage. We need ranged classes to be medium-short and high armored so they have a practical purpose in recovery.

 

@Sir_Inge
@Tenshirox
@EddKrumbs
You guys have covered everything I have ever thought about mage and elf in 4 posts, and for that, I salute you.

*salute*

 

Mage may be annoying, but it is EASY TO KILL. At least get your facts right before you complain about a BALANCED class.
The DAMAGE spell is mid-range and it is hard to hit a strafing cooldown.
The flame spell is hard to aim at longer distances
The freeze spell gives BOTH the mage and the trapped player time to prepare/regen.

The lightning spell barely does any damage and it is hard to aim( and half the time it does nothing or shoots the enemy towards you).
Enemies can get hit by regen, and it has a long cooldown.

Mage is not OP. The low armor makes mage die easily.

So true. At least get your facts right, and consider ALL aspects of the class, before you complain that it is OP

The heal spell has a long cooldown. And the counters of mage are heavy(high armor+high damage), ninja(high damage, high mobility), and assassin(high damage+high mobility.)

 

I have always wondered why exactly mage has the heal spell instead of steak. It is a strange class, because there are no others like it in CTF. Either we give all classes infinite healing with a cooldown, or we give all classes a limited supply of steak except for chemist because it has the heal pots.

 

the spells are just projectiles. damage spell shoots in a straight line and the flame/freeze/lightning are pearls/snowballs/eggs so it's not like they are difficult to aim.

i dont know if ur aware but mage has the same damage output as chemist basically. 5 hearts from damage spell, chemists sword does 5 hearts, 3 hearts from lightning spell, chemists damage pot does 3 hearts (only if its a direct hit), and they both have damage over time in the form of poison/fire. to combine that with the infinite healing that it gets and the fact that it's a mid-range class, the only class of its kind, that can easily keep people at bay with the freeze spell makes it pretty op.

if ur dying to heavies as mage then i think u need to reassess ur mage strategies

 

Elf is another mid-range class. The heal spell has a long cooldown, and it can hit enemies. Also, medic has an infinite healing.
The freeze spell gives both you AND the mage time to regen/prepare.
If you are going to complain about a balanced class, at least look at its weaknesses as well. Mage has weak armor, and all of the spells have cooldowns.

 

elf is terrible and completely outclassed by mage though. i don't know why u are saying it gives the opponent time to prepare. i don't see what preparation u would need to do other than eat a steak or throw a potion which u can do mid fight anyway.

n u can go on about mage's weaknesses all u want, but fact is u have only managed to come up with 2, one of which is pretty pointless cuz the cooldowns are like 2 seconds max or so, which is basically nothing in terms of a ctf game. plus its not even difficult to learn how to time ur spells. if u throw a heal just after a lightning misses u can survive like 5 ninja hits. that's easily enough time to use another lightning or to hit the person away from u and freeze them.

 

You keep saying that the freeze gives both parties time to prepare, but you dun realize that mage is the only class with infinite regen, except for medic but that regeb doesn't do crap in combat. Also, how da faq do you prepare inside an ice cube? Hotkey to your sword and hope the mge misses? The advantages are all with the mage with the freeze spell.