1. Welcome to the Brawl website! Feel free to look around our forums. Join our growing community by typing /register in-game!

Idea Reworked Pyro Rework

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by EmperorTrump45, Sep 13, 2015.

?

What do you think of this Pyro Rework?

  1. Really good! I would love to see this in game!

    3 vote(s)
    37.5%
  2. Its more balanced than the current one but I wouldn't play it

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Undecided

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  4. It needs a lot of work

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Current Pyro is way better for the game, please never add this

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
Thread Status:
Please be aware that this thread is more than 30 days old. Do not post unless the topic can still be discussed. Read more...
  1. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    Hello!

    Based on your feedback (@Sir_Inge especially) on this thread I am proud to present a heavily tweaked version of that Pyro rework.

    Just a quick foreword here - this Pyro removes the current Pyro's instant kill as well as its arrows and flint and steel. See the spoiler Reasoning to see why.

    -I incorporated most of your suggestions for Frenzy Mode (now renamed Pyroclasm cause it sounds cooler and it reminds me a little of Brand's ultimate in League of Legends) as well as some of my own.
    -Added a passive ability.
    -Tweaked the flamethrower cooldown.

    Pyro v2.0

    Leather Helm*
    Leather Chest plate*
    Leather Leggings*
    Leather Boots*

    *all armor is enchanted with Protection I, Blast Protection I, and Fire Protection II.

    Diamond Axe
    Bow
    5 Fire Charges
    Magma Cream
    Button
    5 Steaks
    Compass

    Flamethrower:

    -Draw back the bow to shoot the fire charge.
    -Enemies hit by the fire charge are lit on fire for 6 seconds.
    -Enemies in a 2 block radius of the target are also lit on fire.
    -Fire charges recharge 1 every 8 seconds.
    -Fire does 1 heart of damage every second.
    -The bow can be completely drawn back for a maximum of 3.5 seconds. (credits to @Miskey for the idea).


    Frenzy Mode:

    -Enemies lit on fire by the flamethrower take 3 hearts of true damage per hit.


    Pyroclasm:

    -Right click Magma cream to trigger Pyroclasm.
    -Enemies in a 3 block radius around the Pyro are immediately lit on fire and take 2.5 hearts of true damage and are knocked back slightly (3 blocks).
    -Pyroclasm lasts a maximum of 4.5 seconds with a 9 second cooldown - upon which Pyro will get their Magma cream and button back.
    -Diamond Axe deals 3.5 hearts of true damage during Pyroclasm.
    -Enemies lit on fire during Pyroclasm are given a wither effect.
    -At the end of Pyroclasm an explosion is automatically triggered dealing 6 hearts of true damage to anyone lit on fire.
    -Right clicking the button before Pyroclasm is over will trigger the finisher explosion early with a 0.5 second delay.
    -Fire in Pyroclasm deals 1 heart of damage per second (or 0.5 hearts per 0.5 second).

    Heat Vision:

    -Pyro can see the health of anyone lit on fire (this works in a similar fashion as Medic's ability).

    Reasoning:

    This is a hybrid Pyro that is meant to be able to alternate between a short and mid ranged offensive or defensive capacity.


    Why these changes are necessary:
    I removed Pyro’s instant kill for three reasons. The first is that it leads to highly uneven gameplay for the Pyro and opposing players as Pyro can usually rack up huge kill-streaks but most enemy players end up dying a lot more. Another reason I removed it is because the instant kill reduces the need for teamwork as it makes Pyro so strong defensively that it’s practically a one-man defense in the flag room. CTF is a team game and it shouldn't have classes that are so strong that they can, by and large, defy skill. Furthermore, Pyro’s instant kill makes the class campier because it gives the class a massive benefit by camping out in the flag room or wherever, which makes defenses much too strong and can sometimes ruin maps because of its broken gameplay.

    I removed Pyro’s arrows and replaced them with 5 fire charges to further reduce camping because there is less ammo.

    In turn, I added Pyroclasm (formerly Frenzy Mode) to make up for the enormous weakness created once Pyro's instant kill is removed as well as to help make the class less campy by giving it a powerful defensive/short ranged utility.
    Generally speaking, the goal of this rework is to make Pyro more versatile and less OP than it currently is.

    I removed Pyro’s flint and steel and replaced it with a much more powerful short ranged tool (the Magma cream) to make up for Pyro’s weakened mid ranged ability.


    Anyway here's the boring bit about why I added X, Y, and Z abilities/stuff to this rework from the previous one :stuck_out_tongue:

    -I added the wither effect to Pyroclasm so that steaking through the effect is much harder for enemies because they can't really see how much health they have.

    -I added the passive that allows Pyro to see enemies health level when they're lit on fire so that way Pyro can target weak opponents and use their abilities more selectively. This is especially useful when Pyro triggers its Pyroclasm.

    -I extended the length of the burn time to 6 seconds so that way Pyro can actually deal some pretty significant damage before the burn runs out.


    -I made the fire deal more damage via the Flamethrower to make Pyro's mid ranged ability stronger and to make Pyro less dependent on Pyroclasm to deal significant damage.

    -I removed the steak converting into health concept from Pyroclasm because it disregarded skill too much and made Pyro too OP by making it very hard to kill during Pyroclasm if it has all or most of its steaks.

    -I added a time limit on how long Pyro can draw back their bow to further reduce camping.

    Also, I can see why @wintergreen3 likes to use this font, it's actually pretty nice and easy to read.

    Credit to everyone who gave some great feedback on this this rework:

    @Jon_craft11
    @obikenobi21
    @cactusflower
    @Sir_Inge

    Also, well bloody done on @wintergreen3, our new J-MOD! :smile:

    What do you think?

    -Admiral
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #1 EmperorTrump45, Sep 13, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  2. Subjugating

    Subjugating Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    244
    Ratings:
    +56
    I feel everything is good besides the "5 fire charges". Then again, the FnS spam isn't good. But, overall I feel Pyro is at a balanced. Many may say I'm wrong and or crazy xD.
     
  3. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,371
    Ratings:
    +527
    Balanced but over complicated. I'd up the true damage and work on making 2 abilities vs. 3. Still, an improvement.
     
  4. oStaiko

    oStaiko Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    78
    Ratings:
    +36
    Merr, I really feel like 9 hearts just for hitting someone with an arrow is pretty OP. I think the current burn damage is fine there.

    "If the Pyro is killed before Pyroclasm is over the finisher explosion is automatically triggered early." Really disagree here. With every other class the opposite of this is true. An arrow based classed have their arrows removed mid air if you kill them, and you wont see Zombies walking around after their master dies. Really this would make people afraid to even kill the pyro, which I don't like at all. Killing the Pyro should have a reward, not a cost.

    Pyroclasm... idrk how I feel about it. It sounds like it has a lot of AOE effects that just make Pyro a killing machine capable of taking out an entire offense or something. Not much different from now. The timer is almost worthless too, in public and private matches, you wont see people coming in that often.

    Also if someone wants to cause their pyroclasm explosion early, it should end the entire Pyroclasm as well. Either that or remove the entire option to end it early, which I think would be better.
     
  5. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    I don't see how complexity is a problem considering this Pyro is hardly any more complicated than current Elf (as well as reworked versions of Elf) is.

    Also, the flamethrower and the Frenzy work together so they are technically one ability.

    Okay. Removed.
     
  6. oStaiko

    oStaiko Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    78
    Ratings:
    +36
    Elf IS overcomplicated, yes, however a goal in class reworks should be to make it as simple as possible. Simple makes it better for beginners to play it, which is kind of what makes money.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. StrikerSly

    StrikerSly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,192
    Ratings:
    +745
    Yo dawg, I herd you like reworks...
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    I have hardly ever played Elf before and it took me a few minutes to figure it out. While I am not a beginner to the game I was to Elf and it wasn't difficult to figure it out.

    Regardless, I think there's a very strong misconception about things being too complex for 'noobs'. New players aren't idiots they're just new players. Honestly, anyone can figure out what something does by clicking on it and seeing what happens, which is pretty much what this Pyro, and virtually every single CTF class allows players to do.

    Also what makes money is gameplay that is not so massively unfair that it turns away half the players who decide to hop on the server. People don't invest in a server that isn't fun to play on, not to say that current CTF isn't but it could be a lot more enjoyable if there weren't classes with stupidly strong abilities running around everywhere.

    Another thing that makes money is cool abilities and I think this Pyro has plenty of those, which is why someone would want to play it.

    @Striker_Sly Hell yeah, this is what I do when I don't have homework.
     
    #8 EmperorTrump45, Sep 14, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  9. pandanielxd

    pandanielxd its panda daniel

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,422
    Ratings:
    +893
    Uhm, does medic get hit by any of these abilities? And I think it'd a bit too over complicated. +0.5


    Edit: nvm about too over complitated.
     
  10. TOM_SAYS

    TOM_SAYS Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    416
    Ratings:
    +44
  11. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    Huh?

    I really didn't. In fact, I got a lot of my inspiration from @Quarrelt's Pyro Reworks. Admittedly, there are a few similarities (not many) between mine and yours such as that both reworks have abilities that have something to do with fire! :open_mouth:

    @PanDaniel_ Nope. Medic is its counter like with current Pyro.

    Over - complication is largely bogus criticism of this rework, which is not that hard to understand especially in comparison to every Elf rework ever and some Necro reworks.

    EDIT: @oStaiko the fire damage from the Flamethrower has been reverted to normal (see original post).

    Oooh I just got what you said in your first post and I'm really glad you caught that. Let me clarify that: when the Pyro presses the button to trigger the explosion, it ends Pyroclasm and the ability goes on cooldown.

    You're right, Pyroclasm is definitely a strong ability but it's not as strong as an instant kill (nothing can be stronger than something that kills enemies instantly) although its good enough to maintain Pyro's solid defensive capabilities and compensate for its weaker mid-ranged ones.
     
    #11 EmperorTrump45, Sep 14, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  12. TOM_SAYS

    TOM_SAYS Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    416
    Ratings:
    +44
    Well, as far as I know, I was the first who came up with the flamethrower idea, but it doesn't really matter. I gave up on classreworks so you can use the ideas :wink:
     
  13. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    Well you're right about that, you did use the term Flamethrower in a Pyro rework before me so alright then ^_^
     
  14. archerdwarf

    archerdwarf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    51
    Ratings:
    +11
    I sorta like idea but for those of us who bought pyro a while back remember when any shot (drawn back or not) caught a player on fire. When they made pyro less OP I felt like I wasted my money.With this change I feel that way even more so.
     
  15. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    Okay. Really good point. One of the biggest issues I had with this rework was making Pyro more balanced without making it less fun, as obviously this isn't as enjoyable as old Pyro which was ultra OP =/
     
  16. archerdwarf

    archerdwarf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    51
    Ratings:
    +11
    Thanks for agreeing!
     
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Complete Calamity (REWORKED) Map Submissions Nov 12, 2019
Idea What maps do you want added/reworked MC-War Aug 7, 2018
What Class Should be Reworked First, if any? Capture the Flag Feb 25, 2017
Idea Free Class Idea! (Berserker Reworked) Capture the Flag Jun 12, 2015
Back I played CTF back in 2015-2017 as Pyroleaf Back Jan 4, 2021
Thread Status:
Please be aware that this thread is more than 30 days old. Do not post unless the topic can still be discussed. Read more...