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The New Cycle of CTF

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by bringbackwool, Sep 17, 2015.

?

Should Mage and Elf stay?

Poll closed Sep 25, 2015.

  1. Yes.

    32 vote(s)
    78.0%

  2. No.

    9 vote(s)
    22.0%
Thread Status:
Please be aware that this thread is more than 30 days old. Do not post unless the topic can still be discussed. Read more...
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  1. bringbackwool

    bringbackwool Member

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    The game play and mechanics as they are currently need to be addressed, and a change is in order.
    I am going to try to keep this short, and say my piece on what CTF should change:
    1. remove Mage and Elf.
    2. Medics have a sponge to extinguish fire, similar to elf's water bucket;
    3. Archers get the rapid fire similar to damage spell of Mage;
    I will now explain every point thoroughly.

    One: Pretty self explanatory: Mage has become the cancer of CTF and Elf deviates from the original game play.
    I am not saying I am against change, but Mage seems to appeal more to a commercial side rather than a tactical one. Back then things were more difficult, more unbalanced, and therefore created better players. Elf has good mechanics that would be very useful to other classes. The only useful thing Mage has is the Damage Spell, that is taken advantage of, to spam players that cannot counter it successfully. The Damage Spell is perhaps the only way to defeat a well prepared and well supported (defensive) Dwarf. I say defensive because if I had half a chance I would use it offensively. And it's dangerous, with the correct support, but easily countered by teamwork.

    Two: It's the useful mechanic I referred in point 1 about Elf. The Earth, Wind and Normal elements are useless, because there should be no counter to a wall spamming Soldier. Only a handful of them on the other team trying to kill him or letting an opposing Medic get to him. Like I said in point 1, things were tougher back then. Medics being able to extinguish fire would be a nice, free mechanic for them to have.

    On a side note, shout-out to Inky "Bae Kim" Wolf, best medic and true heir of the Iron Throne.

    Three: Back ago it was said about the game that there was for every paid class a free counter. At the moment, Dwarf does not have one. This has to be addressed before it becomes a problem like Chemist and Assassin, that suddenly became overpowered and overused.

    Another thing I had thought regarding how overpowered a class is, and who plays it for being overpowered and not for the class itself, there's a very simple test. Nerf it to the point of complete uselessness and see who keeps using the class. Who is still standing plays the class for the sake of playing it. I am going to shut up with the "Back then", but Chemist used to have Strength and Speed II and it was not an issue back then. There were more oblivious, noob players, but the pros were better; now the players are better informed, and the skill seems to be more evenly distributed now.

    Thanks to everyone who read this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #1 bringbackwool, Sep 17, 2015
  2. rmure

    rmure Well-Known Member

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    Ninjaed
    Also don't remove Mage and elf. It's unfair to ppl who bought it
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    #2 rmure, Sep 17, 2015
  3. Willizin

    Willizin Member

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    I don't think Elf and Mage should be removed. While Mage is as you said, the cancer of CTF for most people, some people find it to be enjoyable. Sometimes I'll even take a break from the competitive nature of CTF and have some fun with Mage. Perhaps tweaking Mages abilities a little so that it requires more skill to use, or making it less spammy would be nice, but I still think Mage should be kept as a class.

    Same thing goes for Elf, some people hate it, some people love it. I don't think it should be removed just because a few people can't handle it. Elf is potentially very OP, with a counter to every instakill and the ability to stop soldiers dead in their tracks, but it still has weaknesses. I don't think Elf is going to be that big of a deal in terms of different play styles, considering 1.9 is around the corner and sooner or later CTF will be completely different. Elf is a class that requires more skill than most of the current classes, which is a step in the right direction, I think.

    I also have no idea why you think Archer should be able to shoot as fast as Mages current damage spell, because people already complain about Archer enough as is. The point of Archer is to be a long ranged, precision class. If it was able to spam arrows at such a distance that fast, it would be the end of CTF as we know it
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    #3 Willizin, Sep 17, 2015
  4. GetShadowRealmed

    GetShadowRealmed What do I put here

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    I agree. It would be unfair for those who bought those two classes just to have them removed
     
    #4 GetShadowRealmed, Sep 17, 2015
  5. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    No.
     
    #5 Lewka, Sep 17, 2015
  6. Plautius

    Plautius Well-Known Member

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    No.
     
    #6 Plautius, Sep 17, 2015
  7. Deppuccino

    Deppuccino Well-Known Member

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    How about no?
     
    #7 Deppuccino, Sep 17, 2015
  8. TOM_SAYS

    TOM_SAYS Active Member

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    You're an idiot.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    #8 TOM_SAYS, Sep 17, 2015
  9. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Well for starters removing Elf and Mage doesn't make much business sense. This is so because anyone who owns it would have to be refunded their 250 credits and since Brawl is in the business of making money, not redistributing it, that's a bad idea especially when the classes can be tweaked to make more.

    And yeaaaah well... seeing as I paid for Mage and I enjoy playing it a lot I don't think I'm going to vote for its removal anytime soon and neither is (Im assuming) most anyone else who also owns it.

    Anyway sarcasm aside, your post points out a lot of reasons why Mage and Elf need some fixes so that their gameplay is more balanced or has more of a purpose (talkin about Elf here) in game other than to fly around the map and shoot random earth and water elements or spam Damage spells (Mage).
     
    #9 EmperorTrump45, Sep 17, 2015
  10. bringbackwool

    bringbackwool Member

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    This would be a close quarter combat mechanic.

    I don't want to get into a discussion about business, but the game should be about itself, not profit.
    I would agree with you, for the sake of the players that are fond of these classes, but they aren't salvageable. Mage doesn't have a purpose and like I mentioned in the original post, the useful mechanics of Elf need to redistributed through already existing classes.

    I sure am, but the facts are
    • you have exactly 0 counter-arguments and it would make me assume that I make some sense even if you disagree;
    • and you frequently play Mage, I would guess you would be wary of my post.
    Now, if you don't have counter-arguments, don't ****post, but if you do then I would love to hear them out.

    Why not?
     
    #10 bringbackwool, Sep 17, 2015
  11. oStaiko

    oStaiko Active Member

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    >Implying that they aren't a business and actually care about CTF being balanced
    >Implying the higher ups actually like CTF at all

    Do you have your degree in reworks? Do you know for an absolute fact that this is true? You must, since you make such solid statements, yet then go out of your way to say that the majority opinion is full of ****posters. I'm not even going to comment on the details of class balancing, because I'm biased (I actually main both of those classes) and I'm certainy no expert on it. But look at we do have as facts, the community as a whole likes Mage and Elf, your VERY OWN POLL shows this, albeit it has a very small accuracy due to its size. Just removing the classes and doing nothing else will have a large backlash amongst the community. Even if credits are returned, people would be upset because maybe they already own all of the classes, and don't feel like using them on another Brawl game they'll never play. And don't say "peopel will be logical and calm and handle this nicely, because A. You just called the majority opinion ****posters B. Everytime a rework goes through the community burns down and we have to build a new one.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #11 oStaiko, Sep 17, 2015
  12. rmure

    rmure Well-Known Member

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    Answering in bold.
    You wanted counter-arguments, you got counter-arguments.
    And if the tag didn't work, @Sir_Inge
     
    #12 rmure, Sep 17, 2015
  13. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

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    I agree that elf and Mage need tweaks to become objective based. Everything else: HELLA NO.
    Remove Mage: are you serious? Removing a class is not a solution to a problem. Mage is quite popular among classes and removing it would cause an uproar, despite how the game would function without it. That's like saying "Remove raygun cause it's OP for infect" or "Remove soldier it can cap too well." It's illogical, gameplay wise and financially.
    Nerfing archer like this:
    Are you serious? This would make archer useless. Yes, the class is OP, but it has a ridiculous skill curve.

    As to Mage being useless:
    Mage is not the best capping class. If you're skilled enough, however, you can absolutely cap on a large defense with it. I've done it loads of times.
     
    #13 Sir_Inge, Sep 17, 2015
  14. obikenobi21

    obikenobi21 Delta Force Jedi

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    l0l, wtf. This makes no sense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #14 obikenobi21, Sep 17, 2015
  15. dolphincreampuff

    dolphincreampuff Active Member

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    While we are here lets just give solider resistance 20!
     
    #15 dolphincreampuff, Sep 17, 2015
  16. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    That is a debuff you randee
    give it regeneration X AND Resistance 30
     
    #16 Lewka, Sep 17, 2015
  17. Extant

    Extant Active Member

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    Elf has good potential but it is a waste at the moment.
     
    #17 Extant, Sep 17, 2015
  18. oStaiko

    oStaiko Active Member

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    I've been testing it out to get some use from it, the thing with Elf is that it has the highest skill requirement to get any use out of it, but it also has a skill cap higher than Mage or Archer (Very high skill caps for these two). Everyone says it's useless, but they just haven't gotten past the skill minimum yet I'm assuming. Get good enough, and it's a very strong class. Any change to elf should mostly be to lower its minimal skill requirement
     
    #18 oStaiko, Sep 17, 2015
  19. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

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    Really? I find elf to be somewhat... useless in objective gameplay. Yeah, sure, it has power in non-objective, but if it can't really cap or defend... it doesn't seem to fit. Mage can cap at a high enough skill level, but I have't seen that will elf so much.
     
    #19 Sir_Inge, Sep 17, 2015
  20. Lewka

    Lewka Well-Known Member

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    Elf is a good class for capping but it is REALLY weak. The fact that its water ability, which is meant to counter pyros is extremely hard to produce when you're being attacked by two ninjas and set on fire, means that elf should get buffed to help counter other classes.
     
    #20 Lewka, Sep 17, 2015
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