Balance Problem

no. c:

 

Pyro doesn't need a nerf in my opinion. It's easily countered by both no-armor classes and rarely has luck doing anything offense related. I think all classes do deserve a looking at though.

ROAST

 

The door is to your left.

 

I also feel that a pyro beef is un-needed. Pyro can easily be countered by ninja and assassin, also by archers at a distance.

 

pr0 tip! Kill the pairo!1!1!1

 

Well, soldier would be op

 

Could you please explain to me what makes you believe you know class balancing better than regulars, developers or long-time members?

 

@corey435 what is even your point?? We've been through the pyro discussion a solid ten times in the past few months I'd say. For now, it is not extremely unbalanced. Just because you happen to be unable to get past it doesn't mean same goes for every other person. Strangely enough, I manage to get out at least every fifth time as soldier, not mentioning medic or ninja.

And that is absolutely ok. Capturing the flag should be difficult. If it were easy, the game would be boring. So go get some skill, alternatively, go medic. Pyros are not something you don't manage to get past. And I, as capper, often times also just get burnt without being killed, still getting me down by 4 hearts = 1 steak. It's not like pyro was limited to Instakills, and it's not like they're completely, utterly and totally game-breaking.

 

Look @corey435, I had to spend 5 months training to be a decent Archer, and rn I'm still only mediocre. Chances are if you do manage to remove instakills @LordCh4os will make your CTF life even worse, which would be ez for him.

 

well someone summoned me, so may as well say my piece

This thread is basically a repetition of other people's opinions already said before it and really doesn't tell you anything new. The only difference is of course in this thread it's more about giving an opinion rather than having a justifiable reason to back it. Nevertheless I shall try to tie up some of the loose threads

Completely irrelevant at this point. The only difference would be archers would have learned to play with the different arc. If you really want to argue a different arc would lower the range, the devs would have compensated for that in the archers headshot when they made the class in the first place

Bowspamming + punch 2 is the reason why people get annoyed, because of the knockback by random shots. Bowspamming without that would be a waste of arrows and the archer would still end up dead, so this isn't really a massive problem provided the punch 2 is fixed. I still don't really like the bowspamming and I gave my ideas to @Admiral_Munson in part to come up with a way to fix archer so that this problem is addressed. However, this has been said about a billion times before

IMO main reason why archer needs fixing, and as I've stated before in threads, the reason behind that is archer is meant to be countered short range. The punch 2 on the bow is what makes it difficult as a good archer can hit you out of that short range and into headshot range, making short range countering more difficult than it should be. Many people have agreed with me, and others have also disagreed, stating that the headshot mechanic itself that's the main issue. Regardless of which you choose to believe (or a combination of both or neither for that matter) this has been said multiple times before. There's no real reason to say this without a reasonable new justification as to why it should be changed. As you haven't provided a reason at all, I don't really see what this really adds to the debate

Some people defend instakills and play the classes because they think the class is fairer than others make it out to be, and think with a correct rework (or in some cases nothing at all) the class would be fair with the instakill. Other people don't like it (for multiple reasons) and wish to see the instakills gone. Some people wish to get rid of the instakills and still play those classes because they know how to exploit them, or want to use it whilst it is in it's current state before it's changed. There are a multitude of reasons for and against instakills. I believe @Deplicasus said his quote in that particular way because your argument had very little justification behind it, and so equally he responded with very little justification about his opinion. Realistically though, whether you're for or against instakills comes down to opinion, but as long as you can justify it, I see no reason why everyone shouldn't be included in the debate with a valid point. I hope that clears up the question as to why some choose to defend instakills

Depends on the pyro. I've seen plenty that have made me laugh. There are lots of pyros out there, and not all of them are good!

Same goes for all classes. If they are mad at you, they may well target you. It really depends on which class you're using and how good you are as to how effective the player is at doing that. It's not like pyro doesn't have counters, and so if the pyro was targeting, then you could easily use one of those. I'm not saying that I don't agree pyros are overpowered to an extent, but this justification is rather irrelevant since it can apply to any class

Not many people get spider spawners anyway regardless of the class because they simply don't get enough kills before they die to upgrade it to that stage. I don't see really how the pyro has much to do with it other than making it more difficult, which frankly if it got to near spider spawner level people would be trying to make your life difficult anyhow. Again, this doesn't really seem relevant

I personally like to kill any engineer I see offensive or defensive, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with me on this. Engies are perfectly capable of killing a pyro. Their auto turret can kill them faster than some classes since they only wear leather armor, and the cake extinguishes you, making it harder for the pyro to work. Furthermore, the teleported players will defend the engineer, making him harder to kill. provided you're a decent engineer, or you find a good spot, you could go offensive engineer. All you have to do is bear in mind you will likely be targeted

Medic counters pyro. If you're good enough it should be easy

yes he does. He's got an explosive bow to set things on fire, a flint and steal and an axe that instakills you if you're on fire. It's fairly fire themed. Admittedly more could be done, but does that make an archer who kills a guy with his sword unfitting to his name? It's the same principle, the only difference is it occurs less often

Every class has a role, and pyros is mainly built for defense. That doesn't mean other roles can't be played by that class. A dwarf is a defense class and yet people capture with it (crazy people!). A class doesn't have to be played in a specific way, and frankly using a class in a different way can be a testament to the player, as they're using a class that wasn't designed for that right role.

I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. I'll guess you mean people will leave if they get instakilled. If that's the case, then people get angry really quickly. Also they're quite able to play the instakill class if they want (archer is available as a free class). If it's one of the other instakill classes they can play it on a friday, counter it with a free class (medic for pyro etc.) or buy the class! I can understand people might get angry, but that's basically ragequitting, and most people who do ragequit come on a few hours later. It's rather shallow to leave an entire game just because you get instakilled. If you're not doing well in kills/deaths (which by the way isn't the main objective in something called CAPTURE THE FLAG) then that signals you've got some training to do, not that you should leave. People will still leave because of this, but I daresay they'll be back when they've calmed down

Unless I'm really out of the loop, necro is broken and UP right now. That said, maybe you haven't learned to be a good necro? You're not the most experienced player yet after all. Maybe after some more games you'll be much more skilled and able to play it! Just keep practising!

every class takes some kind of skill. The only difference is how much skill. But the same thing goes for every class. There are going to be arrogant people who think they're good, and arrogant people who are good. There are modest good people too. I think this is more down to human nature rather than the problem of the class itself. If they're arrogant like that, then that's their problem and eventually that arrogance will be their own downfall because people will go after them and they'll realise the truth if they aren't as good as they think they are. Pyro in my opinion (as well as the opinion of many) is OP, but some people think that it's fine (@Review has stated that on this thread already). I think the problem lies not with people complaining about it, but not enough people coming up with viable solutions to fix the problem. If we got a good one, it could be implemented and the problem would be solved. With just complaining but no solutions, not a lot can be done!

You need the skill to set the player on fire then hitting them with the axe. Not particularly hard but it takes a little skill IMO. In any case, it follows the class. You can have a half decent k/d, but if you're using a class that usually gets a good k/d it's not particularly impressive now is it! It's all down to relativity.

Same reason why ctf will never be balanced truly. As soon as you fix one thing, another thing becomes relatively more powerful and so people complain. That then gets changed and the cycle moves on!

Stats did get reset when coming to brawl, and this really does make things difficult for you to argue your case. If you haven't played a lot, or played the class much at all, you're at a severe disadvantage because you have less experience with it and so less knowledge to fall back on. Even now I rarely talk about any class other than archer because it's the class I know best by far. I rarely play other classes at all, and the only reason I'd talk about them would be because I've played enough games to know how they're meant to function without actually having to play them. I still avoid them because people are more experienced than me at them and so they're better suited to fixing the problem

Subjective and not a real reason why they should be changed. Every player has pet hates. Mine is engineer, and I daresay there's a hater for every class out there. Doesn't mean we should listen to people and change them just because it infuriates one particular player

Glad to hear that, but again this isn't really relevant for justification because there are a lot of archers out there since it's a free class. At the end of the day people are superficial and a lot care more for kill and k/d stats themselves than how they impact again (I know this sounds superficial coming from me, but equally I genuinely care more about how I impact the game than what my stats are like, despite how they look on the boards). Archer can fulfil that and is a free class and so people will use the class a lot. There are a lot of archers so more arrows being fired. More arrows being fired means more headshots

It's meant to take out specific targets, but it can be used for recovery, and defense too. Like I said before, just because a class is designed for a specific role doesn't mean it can't be used elsewhere

So does that mean it should be the only way for the pyro to kill?

As I said at the start of this rather long winded post, not a lot of what's been said here is new material, and there's not a lot of justification as to why any of this should be implemented. I can understand that people want to change the game for the better, but I for one would like to see not only reasonable justifications from experienced players about what's wrong with the game, but also a viable solution to the problem. I say this because experienced players know about this game more than anyone else, and so would know the exact effects of changing a class and would therefore keep the gamemode heading in the right direction. Furthermore, as I also said before, it's all very well complaining about the problem, but unless there's a viable alternative, the only real option is to keep it as it is. You can't just remove a class until it's fixed, half the classes in the game need fixing! It would be a rather boring game with limited classes, with only those deemed to be appropriate. You could argue and say CTF will never be balanced, and so all the classes should be removed (as many have already joked)

As a final response, and as reference to @Deplicasus 's point that I would make your life hell. Sometimes it isn't the class that is the overpowered part. Sometimes it's the player that makes the class overpowered.

Nevertheless, I hope my response has cleared up at least some of the questions raised in this thread *drops mic*