This is my apology for 3-4 years of my...well stuff.

I urge you to, mostly because I love debating with you C:

 

Being honest, I don't think anyone is truly in the right here full stop. As I've already pointed out in one of my earlier posts here, boomdrone doesn't appear to have changed at all despite posting this thread, and so it's very difficult to see him as being in the right. Forgiveness is inherent, as you talk about later, but nevertheless it is not innate for everyone, and people can have a hard time forgiving others, especially in these circumstances. I think it's wrong to say that despite it being a forum on a block game, people don't care about it. If nobody cared about the game, then of course nobody would play it! You grow sentimentally attached to objects etc which really you shouldn't care about, but you end up doing anyway. Boomdrone, whilst might being one of the least credible in the community has also affected, and in some cases ruined the fun of the people playing this game, the game people have become attached to and so care about. I think it's a fairly natural reaction for them to react in a negative manner. I think it's very well to say that you shouldn't care, and actually not caring. I don't think anyone writing posts on these forums can say that they truly don't care about this game, because they've taken the time and effort to make that account in the first place just so they can discuss that game with other people that care about it in the first place. In other words, the very nature of a forums means that the people inside it care about it!

Very simply because people don't act in a rational way. Emotion can override intelligence. It makes sense to not be angry because the likelihood is he's more probable to change his ways like that, but that doesn't necessarily mean what we want to do emotionally. It goes back to what I was saying above: boomdrone has no doubt annoyed and ruined the fun of some of the people playing this game, a game which they care about. It's fairly rational to think that they're going to be angry about it. Your argument revolves around the fact that people should not care about a block game at the moment, but at the end of the day, whether it's logical, intelligent or neither, people DO care about that block game, and when you put that into perspective, you can start to understand why people won't forgive him. It's the morally correct thing to do to forgive him, but the morally correct thing doesn't always happen after all. Boomdrone is misguided yes, and has a degree of vulnerability, but that doesn't necessarily justify what he has done, and in the case of the people not forgiving him, that excuse is simply not enough.

Forgiveness is a reflex, but when you forgive someone as many times as boomdrone for the very same thing, with nothing changing, the word "sorry" loses meaning and becomes nothing but an empty shell. It might not be a problem to forgive for some, but the fact that he hasn't asked for forgiveness in anything but an empty hollow way means that they will not extend that forgiveness. It's also natural to take the path of least resistance, completely true, but equally speaking things don't always go that way. People disagree, situations change and things go wrong, as in this case. As I have said, this has happened before, and as nothing has changed, that past experience is now impacting on the present. I like to think of this kind of thing through this phrase: people forgive, not forget.

I completely understand that if you don't forgive then you explicitly refuse an opportunity to potentially fix the problem, implicitly making yourself part of the problem. However, my point as I've raised earlier, is that this was never intended as an opportunity to fix relations in the first place. As I pointed out earlier, boomdrone did not appear remorseful or was attempting to change his actions, and so the possibility that this could be forgiven did not look like an option. If that opportunity doesn't exist, then there is no point in extending forgiveness, as either outcome will be nothing more than another one of these hollow threads. It's also worth mentioning that people may forgive him, but need more substantial proof that he is actually attempting to mend his ways this time, as this has happened before with no change resulting.

Ineptitude maybe, but I'd rather forgive someone that sounds truly remorseful for what they have done and seek to change it. Actions speak louder than words after all. Exacerbating the problem maybe, but some problems get worse before they get better.

 

First off, that's pretty deep and some sweet psychology. Second, I think you're completely right.

Most of the posts in this thread could have been saved for private conversations but ended up perpetuating a public and seemingly never ending circle-jerk. Personally I don't know boomdrone at all aside from all the bad things I've heard about him.

What's funny to me about this thread is how much it reminds me of how I used to act. Believe it or not I used to be a really... not nice person online to pretty much everyone. Back on McPVP in 2012/2013 I flamed a ton of people and did a whole bunch of weird sexual stuff for attention or whatever. I had a really toxic relationship with my parents (irl) and with a lot of people in the community and it was massively depressing. Over time I improved, at least I like to think I did, making me the person I am today. I know I would have had a harder time improving if I had everyone I knew on McPVP telling me I was always going to be a massive jerk or that my apologies didn't mean diddly.

I know I wouldn't want to relieve all my less than great past deeds. I had a lot of conversations on Skype with WiKi_KiKi that were threatening, depressing, or narcissistic. I made threats to lots of people online such as Bennyb123 (if anyone remembers him) and later on I apologized for it. What's my point here? I guess what I'm trying to say is that his (boomdrone's) apology should just be accepted and then we can all move on rather than just reliving all the awful things that he may or may not have done. Why? Because when the people I apologized too accepted my apology - however sincere it was to them - it gave me some kind of closure. That I could just get past whatever stupid stuff I did and be done with it. Plus, reliving all that stuff from the past like how people have been doing in this thread just makes it harder to move forward because everyone has a bad image of you. What if someone started going after me for all the bad stuff I did and said on McPvP? Such as the time I scammed people out of nearly 30$ in a giveaway because I wanted likes on YAF or some other equally narcissistic and stupid thing? I can guarantee that a lot of people would have a bad impression of me and it would be pretty damn upsetting. It would be even more saddening if I made an apology thread for it and everyone started going after me and saying that my apology isn't good enough, or that I haven't improved enough, or that I'm a worthless person. Maybe that's not the case here but why should we care about it so much to the point where we are now having a 5 page discussion over this?

I know I make a lot of joke posts but what I've said above isn't a joke, it's serious because I have really strong feelings about this topic and what's going on in it. Being excluded from a social group because everyone might view you as toxic is one of the worst feelings I can ever imagine. It sucks to be the 'uncool' or 'annoying' kid. Everyone wants to be the cool kid. And whether boomdrone deserves to be continually reprimanded and rejected or doesn't deserve to be is not the question. The question is whether or not we can just accept him for who he is and go back to whatever we were doing before looking at this Brawl version of The Young and the Restless. Stop expecting someone to change for the better in 5 seconds, or 5 minutes, 5 weeks, or hell even 5 months. It took me a really long time to get where I am from the hyper insecure, socially awkward, 14 year old I was back in 2012.

I mean as Bananaman already said, this is a freaking block game. Why take it so seriously to the point where we're having discussions like this? Chill out, smoke some weed (fyi: Admiral's Wild Wacky Weed Wagon is open 24/7!), do something else, and please stop hating on each other. Brawl isn't High School and never should be. Sure we have our differences but this is the last place where we should be saying horrible things to each other, especially when the person on the receiving end of all of that can't really fight back without looking/sounding even worse.

To boomdrone: I may not know who you are but I just want you to know that I accept your apology. I'm not angry at you and I honestly don't know why I would be. But I almost jumped into the circle-jerk with others on this thread and truthfully I had thought of you as a lesser person because all I've ever heard about you is stuff that's negative. I'm pretty ashamed of that because I know what it's like to be thought of like that, and I don't know how to say this in the most articulate way possible, but I wish you well. I really do.

To anyone who plans to continue perpetuating the circle jerk or the cycle of 'judgement' (whatever you want to call it) then let the one who has never flamed, or said anything mean to anyone make the next post. (yes @TOM_SAYS that is a completely butchered quote from the Bible)

Holy hell that took way too long to type. Eh welp I'm out. Gotta go do some college work!

Cheers,

-Admiral

 

I don't disagree with you, and I don't really think what you're saying disagrees so much with what I'm saying if I hear you correctly. I just think the top priority should be solving the problem instead of being angry. And what people don't seem to understand is that boomdrone isn't someone at whom you should be getting mad. This isn't insulting him or you or anyone else here, but let's be real here. This is someone who has faked a suicide for attention. I don't see that as an action that warrants people attacking him.

The emotional reaction, which you mention, is exactly what I'mm criticizing. It's okay to care about the game and its community, but I suppose if you care so much you would want to improve it over all else, no?

 

The top priority I agree would be solving the problem rather than being angry. I think some of the posts in this thread have taken the reaction over the top to be downright insulting, and I think if that happens then we are no better than what boomdrone has done. It is exactly what needs to be avoided. Saying that you're angry is fine, being downright insulting is not. Faking a suicide does not warrant being attacked for it, but I can understand why people would be angry with him about that. Suicide is an incredibly controversial and emotionally difficult topic to discuss, especially in today's current climate. Faking a suicide like that for attention could be seen as a joke, and incredibly offensive for people who have had friends and sometimes family members commit suicide for real, and then have something like this happen as a joke. It doesn't justify outright attacking boomdrone, but it's certainly understandable why they'd be angry about that, whether it happened on a block game or not.
If you care, you'd want to improve it yes. There is a degree of uncertainty as to how that would be best done. Some would see it important to restore relationships and change things for the better. Others would say that boomdrone is beyond redemption and that the best thing to be done is to have him driven off. I personally would like to see what boomdrone is actually going to do to prove his words are not hollow before I personally choose to forgive him. I would rather have a restored relationship than a person being driven off. With that said, at the moment from what I've seen from his posts on this thread, That won't be happening any time soon

 

@Bananaman314 I can forgive boom, but I also want him to change his ways. He has shown time and time again that he is not ready to commit to trying to be better, so why forgive him? An apology without trying to correct what he did wrong in the first place is meaningless. I for one, will forgive him once he actually makes good upon his mistakes, not when he throws out an apology on the forums after he gets permanently banned on the server he always plays for doing his usual thing.

So basically, looking back on how many times boom has pulled something like this, it should be clear why any of us would be hesitant to forgive. To my knowledge I've never done anything against boom. Yet he rages, insults, and harasses me after I try to help him, or after I kill him with archer, or whatever. The occasional rage/insult/whatever? Fine, whatever, who cares. Everyone has their breaking point. I've raged a good amount before. I'll probably do it again sometime. But doing it every single time you play, almost every time you get killed it seems like? Unacceptable behavior from someone who's supposed to be one of the older members of the community.

TL DR; he needs to show some progress before I forgive him. It's happened too many times to forgive him instantly. Maybe the ban will be good for him. Then again, maybe not. Only time will tell :I

 

@BrandinoB @LordChaos_92

Forgiveness is key. If that doesn't come naturally for you (which I can't understand), I urge you to try. To some extent, I suppose this is something with which he needs your help. If he really doesn't meet your expectations, ignore him or stay kind and forgiving. I know this is the internet, which is why kindness is especially important.

 

If you insist. I do love a good debate, and I know you'll play by the rules so I'm not just typing at a brick wall.

I'd like to start off with an old adage. Ya' know the saying fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me? I'm pretty sure this sums up the entire experience this forum has had with boomdrone.

I'm sure you're pretty aware of how bad boomdrone as a forumer can get (and I'd like to make it clear right now that my arguments are not against boomdrone as a person. For all any of us are aware this entire thing is just a facade, but it's the face he shows to us so it's the face I'm going to criticize.)

Case in point: This entire thread. https://www.brawl.com/threads/46704/#post-593872 Particularly noteworthy are his first point and your first response. He's pretty clearly set out to antagonize people throughout the entire time he's been around, and while I can't exactly go back to the old forums to get the threads, the stories are still around.

Boomdrone, for as long as he's been around, has done some pretty stupid ****.
He's faked his own death for attention, he's refused to bury hatchets over incredibly old grudges, and (as someone who gets a good debate, you can get this one), he's made claims without backing them up and then had the gall to proclaim that he's the only person who's right, (see thread https://www.brawl.com/threads/48573/), and he's outright insulted a pretty good portion of ctf's main body at least once.

Suffice to say that he's done a good job of annoying many, many people. While this in and of itself is no big crime, as for all I people can say what they want when they want to whoever they want, it's not the only factor that's been contributing to boom's sheer amount of hatred he receives.

I'd like to point out this sentence: From the ctf thread:https://www.brawl.com/threads/48573/page-5
"Not worthless to me , this game isnt garbage baws, you are just mad you cant find any reasonable reason archer needs to be nerfed. You and several other people are just upset you die to archer a ton. boo hoo".

This one, directed specifically at me, is one of the main reasons that I find people can't have any respect for boomdrone. Specifically, because that sentence comes one month after he said this:

See, this comes from an apology thread he made on these very forums back in september. For somebody who's trying, this sentence (and every other sentence that is in this thread) does not seem to portray any of the 'respect' he claims he's trying to show. To be fair, my tone in this thread isn't exactly cool and calm but I'd like to think that most responses I made on that thread did a good job of at least addressing the subject matter at hand, at least before I had to devolve into an attack on (ironically) his personality in order to get my point across.
From the sheer amount of upvotes I got on that reply, it looks like something that was on the mind of many others at the time as well.
On top of this thread, there have been countless others where boom will dismiss the ideas of another as 'stupid' or 'nooby' without really trying to explain his point. Note that for the most part the rest of that thread was a good balance of points and counterpoints, with the sole exception being boomdrone who was saying, verbatim, 'It's fine, you're just mad, boo hoo you'.

The irony of that above paragraph can't have been lost on you. A month after making an apology thread on this very forum, stating how he knew that he was an asshole and that he wanted to be a better person, he was back to exactly where he was before: pointless insults and terrible argumentative ettiquette.

As far as I can tell, as for these parts I wasn't exactly involved too deeply, this has been a pattern for boomdrone. He f*ucks up, he apologizes, he swears he'll fix his ways, and for the most part everyone forgives him. At the very least they state that they're willing to give him another chance (again, see thread https://www.brawl.com/threads/47677/#post-606189). In fact, I've seen copious amounts of forgiveness come from this community towards boomdrone, even though we've all learned in the past that, well, we really don't have any reason to.

It's a cycle that's been going on since damn near the beginning of MCPVP. That's 3-4 years. If you'd expect a trend to change that's a pretty copious amount of time to wait.

So that's the thing. It's not that we have no forgiveness for boom, it's not that we never have. It's that we're sick and tired of being fooled. Purposeful or not, people can only handle a cycle of being told that things will change and then not seeing that change for so long. (See: the entirety of MCPVP's old forum history).

TL;DR
It's not that we can't forgive boom. It's that we have, and were proven wrong for it.
------------------------------

Not my best argument but it was done relatively on the fly so hey, what can I do. I'll gladly elaborate on my position if you'd like, but essentially you're expecting people to have an unlimited well of patience and forgiveness for someone who's pretty clearly got no intentions of drinking from it.

 

@Admiral_Munson
Again you give me reason to respect you.

Still, I can't help but point out that, from your own stories at least, you were able to change your ways after you realized that you were in the wrong. It might have taken you a while, but you were able to get through it by apologizing to people and making an effort to change your own wording. This has made you into the kind of person you are right now.

In contrast, Boomdrone has broken his own apologetic tone in this very thread. On Brandino's response to him he immediately shows his hypocracy once again. No point quoting it because I did in one of my other posts on this thread, but suffice to say that it's pretty representative of why people don't trust boomdrone for as far as they can throw him. While Brandino wasn't exactly accepting of his apology, he gave his reasoning why in a pretty respectful tone. Boomdrone then immediately said 'yeah but this is your fault too' like a kid trying to shift the blame.

Your stories may be similar, but while you were able to grow and mature (hell, it may not seem it but I did too), boomdrone's shown nothing but the same side of himself for nigh on as long as mcpvp's been around.
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Read between the lines on this one. He's literally saying 'show me you can change and I'll forgive you.

The fact that I can't show one person who's forgiven you outright says more about you than about us. There's plenty of the quotes above. Not many saying 'yes, boomdrone, I forgive you'.

In fact, that post you just posted proves my point even more. Instead of even trying to accept that maybe you're wrong, you again shift the blame and take on an indignant stance. You're digging a deeper hole for yourself using the ladders that have been provided to you, boom.

 

Doing it again, boom.

I'd like to point out that I'm not, and never will do this with any malice. I've not seen a single person who's said they hate you outright, I've not seen a single person who's rejected your kindness (on the forums), I've only seen you being, well, you. And the only person who can change you is, well, you.

All we can do at this point is call out what you're doing for as long as you're doing it. We can't make you change your own replies.

 

The big problem I have with your whole point is that you think he's "fooling" you. Who cares? What do you think you lose from forgiving him even if he's screwing with you for this whole time? There's no dignity to lose here on this internet forum.

It is, and if it isn't it should be, the default to have an unlimited well of forgiveness as you said. Can you give me a reason to not have that always available, even if he "refuses to drink?"

 

If it looks like I'm implying that he's fooling us purposefully, that's not what I'm trying to get across. I'm under no impression that he's doing this on purpose (except for the parts where he's said that he's doing it on purpose, but I'm not inclined to get @Lord_Roke to undelete that specific post from the archer thread so I digress). Oh god I summoned roke pls dun lock this thread it's relevant I swear

What I'm saying is that, despite the world's best efforts, nobody's got an unlimited well of patience. Many of us might have smaller wells, and it's true that we should strive to have as much patience and understanding for people as possible, but what you seem to be expecting is that we should all provide eternal patience for something that's proven to not really deserve it.

I, for one, honestly believe that most of the forums want to give boomdrone a chance, hell I am right now by explaining as best I can why he's disliked. That's my honest to the god I don't believe in truth, and if anyone wants to disagree with me here feel free. Thing is, we've all given him many chances, and it can only ever be so long until our wells run dry, and when people's wells of patience run dry, they snap. The way they snap varies, from anger to cold dislike. (some post essay arguments, for example ). But it's in people's natures to try to keep being patient. It just doesn't help that boom seems to want to pour the patience water on the ground despite what he says are his best efforts to drink from it.

To run with a metaphor, as it were.

 

I honestly believe you boom. Still, I've got this quote screenshotted, and I hope to never have to use it.

 

On the contrary, I do believe that (at least in this case) we all have an unlimited well of patience. You all have sound mental states, and a sound mental state is one that is capable of maintaining a sense of kindness that keeps us moving forward as a group. This is not 3-4 years of perpetual harassment. In fact, for maybe half of that time he was completely MIA. This situation is something that you are all capable of handling without anger and resentment, and there is nothing that you need to prove for me or anyone else. So do some good, will ya?

 

You forget that not exactly everyone in this world is a paragon of good. Hell, you've snapped at boom once, it's in the very first link I posted. I'd say that's hypocritical of you to say that we should have unlimited wells of patience when you yourself don't, and I just did say that just now, but I know that you're trying to get a message of love and tolerance across like a regular bron- I mean brawler.

Problem is that you're making an argument from a perfect world (whatever that fallacy is). I don't want to devolve into fallacy slinging, but suffice to say that not everyone will have an unlimited well of patience, and I'd daresay that nobody really does.

Contrary to popular belief I'm only a dick about one third of the time. The other two thirds I can be a very sentimental dick.