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Idea Elf Pure Element Tweak

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by pookeythekid, Feb 25, 2016.

?

Option 1 or 2?

  1. 1

    5 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 3 (which was edited in)

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
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  1. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    Step 1: remove the wind element nerf. Also before this, see this awesome thread by @blitz_dragon for the other stuff I'd love to see.

    So, in a few words, make Pure Element guarantee a kill reward for landing three consecutive shots.

    As most people know, just landing two full-powered shots is pretty tough, but then most elf kills require three anyway. I've got two options here.

    Option 1

    Pure Element does 3 hearts of true damage on the first full-power shot, 7 hearts on the second full-powered shot, and always kills the person on the third consecutive powerful shot. This way, you can still steak to survive the first two shots, but the third shot serves as a reward for skill.

    And yes, it can often take 4, 5, or sometimes 6 shots to kill someone who steaks quickly. It's ridiculous.

    Option 2

    First shot does 2.5 hearts, second shot does 5.5 hearts, and then the third shot also guarantees a kill. Pretty much the same thing, except you have the chance to steak after the second shot.

    These both remove the possibility of four or more shots being necessary to kill someone. Elf is difficult enough, it shouldn't exceed a 3-shot kill.

    Actually I lied about 2 options, here's a third option because @Admiral_Trump rages a lot c:


    Option 3

    1 heart on any low-powered shot. For the first power shot, 4.5 hearts of damage; the second, 9.5 hearts (a kill if two steaks aren't used); and if miraculously they steak enough to survive that, 3rd shot guarantees a kill.

    Now might I say that this is ridiculously powerful--not only a two-shot kill, but the first shot takes half of health, and just lobbing an arrow at someone does as much damage as a ninja's sword to a heavy (go ahead and check me on that). Option 1 is still a 2-shot kill with a moderately likely 3-shot necessity, its initial damage is not too powerful, and it doesn't turn elf into a nerfed assassin with a bow.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    #1 pookeythekid, Feb 25, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  2. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

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    You know what? I don't like this.
    I say 6 hearts for the first shot, 8 for the second, and 11 (insta) for the third. I also say buff the sword.
     
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  3. MrWaffleman

    MrWaffleman The negligence of time's end is man's downfall

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    If anyone is worried about damage and all, then I can suggest something. Just like the Vanilla bow, the more you draw back, the more the damage (except on more extreme scales). For example, if you weakly pull back the bow on the first shot, it's 3 hearts, then if you weakly pull back the bow on the second shot, it's 6 hearts. But the third shot is guaranteed insta-kill. This way you can still have Inge's idea of 6 hearts on the first shot, just if you fully pull back your back. It won't be very common for people to fully draw back their bow and hit someone 3 times, considering that takes a lot of time. So they might as well do weak shots, but each side has their own pros and cons, considering if you know you don't have enough time to perform a successful insta-kill, you can just damage them with whatever combo you want. Like firstly a strong shot then a little weak shot on the second.

    Just a little idea, but don't go with me on the exact damage values, I was just giving mechanic ideas :stuck_out_tongue:.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

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    My idea was for fully drawn shots so this is good.
    I'd also like to see earth element last about 2-6 times as long.
     
  5. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    I'm keeping it realistic here xD. Ninja, for example, once mastered, can be insanely powerful. Though there aren't many who can do that, the few are still a nuisance to cappers (which is a complement for those ninjas :stuck_out_tongue:).

    With elf, you can master the usage of Pure Element to the point where you can almost always land at least two shots on people, and quite often successfully three-shot them. Because of this, I really think my Option 1 is a great compromise: if you can surprise an opponent, you have a fair chance of killing them in two shots; if they steak and you're skilled enough to land a third shot, they still die because you have mastered the weapon and now reap your rewards for it.

    Honestly, elf has a good deal of power in its own way, especially with the fact that, without a wind nerf, it's a decent capping class. You don't want the next mage--a capping and killing class--running around CTF now, do you?
     
  6. Sir_Inge

    Sir_Inge Well-Known Member

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    Umm, hello, Mage is really useful for things that are t killing. The only reason it's foot at one on ones is because of a low cooldown on damage spell. Elf has a bow. Difference.
     
  7. blitz_dragon

    blitz_dragon Active Member

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    I like this idea but the first shot should not deal true damage and the second shot should only deal 6 hearts of true damage, as the class is now, but the third shot should 1-hit-ko. :smile:
     
  8. kriztmas

    kriztmas Well-Known Member

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    Or give wind element 10 arrows again C:
     
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  9. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah, mage is very well useful for things other than killing and capping, but that further extends my point: we already have two classes--chemist and mage--that are good at a lot of things, why add a third one into the mix?

    That's good and all :stuck_out_tongue: but it doesn't change a lot, other than guaranteeing a 3-shot kill; that is indeed the major point of this thread, but it would certainly be nice to give elf an extra little buff that it could very well use in pvp. When the first shot does 2 or 2.5 hearts of true damage (2.5 for a perfect 1/4 of health), it opens up the fight with the opponent seriously considering the need to use steak, and otherwise punishes people for being super low on health (but that's okay because if you have two hearts and no steak you're going to die anyway xD).
     
  10. blitz_dragon

    blitz_dragon Active Member

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    You're right. I think Option 1 is the best option, but Option 2 is also neat. I can see both working in game. :smile:
     
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  11. ACE_BLUE2

    ACE_BLUE2 Sup'

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    If the third shot is hit, and a player dies, what message shows up? ( archer has "you were sniped") I believe it should be "you have been elf'd" x3
     
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  12. blitz_dragon

    blitz_dragon Active Member

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    You've been 360 noscoped?
     
  13. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    "You have been PURELY DESTROYED!!"
    lol such pun
     
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  14. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

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    Honestly this thread is like asking me to choose between Al Gore and George W. Bush. Both options aren't that great but one of them is slightly less bad than the other one. Oooooh, now I can get a kill if I shoot someone three times in a row! GREAT! It's not like that's 'kind of' hard to do if the target is strafing or just moving in general...

    In my opinion Elf's pure element should do a ton of damage, like 6 hearts of true damage with the first shot and then instant kill on the second. Why? Because it would be fun and I didn't ask someone to use their good money to buy me a class like Elf so that it could receive devastating nerfs and half measures like this as a buff. I don't like a class that actually forces me to be really good with it to actually get kills and deal meaningful damage to enemies like Elf does. It's boring, rage inducing, and stupid. In fact that sums up my experience with Elf. Boring, rage inducing, and stupidly challenging.

    I don't question your knowledge with Elf pooks, you're one of the best ones out there. But come on, the reworked (or "nerfed") Pyro can deal massive true damage by lighting people on fire. Current Elf, and the Elf with your pure element can't do that very effectively, which is dumb because making premium classes tricky to use for great effect is an extremely counterproductive selling point.

    I mean, why would I buy Elf when I can use a powerful free class like Archer? Or Soldier? Or Heavy? All of those classes are actually quite good at what they do. But tell me, why would I use a next to worthless support class like Elf? To torture myself?
     
    #14 EmperorTrump45, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  15. blitz_dragon

    blitz_dragon Active Member

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    @Admiral_Trump : Aren't you against the fact that Elf can fly above walls?
     
    #15 blitz_dragon, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  16. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    k first off if you think Brawl--or even MCPVP (edit: lol wait, MCPVP allowed the original pyro...)--would allow that kind of damage you've officially crossed the line to insanity. But to be fair, as you may or may not have seen already, I added in something that may satisfy you.

    You ask why one would play elf instead of archer, heavy, or soldier? For the same reason I play archer in the first place--@freerider14 can agree with me on this next point. For a long time, I've pretty much sucked at pvp (I only say "for a long time" because I'm showing improvement as of late ^-^) compared to how I can use a bow. A 3-shot kill was difficult for me to master, but in the end I found that, in combination with the mobility of wind element and the occasionally useful anti-pyro shield/water, a 3-shot close-ranged kill was pretty good. Of course, a one-shot kill from 30 blocks or more is great, but it's highly ineffective on maps where the flag carrier can run in places where you can't shoot from afar. For those like me who can't pvp at close range for life, continuing to use a bow at close range is a great thing.

    Also, I hardly have to mention elf's capping capacity. Once in a match, I--a very horrible capper in respect to many of the offensive players on official teams--actually got the flag, made it most of the way across the map, and almost captured the flag if not for some well-placed medic webs. When elf is used by people who are far better than me at capping, great things can happen.

    That's pretty much all elf is good for, though--or, was good for, since after the nerf it can't even capture flags anymore (that match was when one of the match servers had not been nerfed). I will also admit that soldier is much better off with getting in and out of flag rooms alive and relatively unharmed, even with an un-nerfed elf. But restoring elf's wind element and giving it the pvp buff it deserved in the first place--a pure element like one of these that I'm suggesting and/or some better armor--and elf will actually deserve to be a part of average CTF where not everyone is a professional at everything in order to use a class like this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

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    Elf's pure element isn't the problem with the class. Elf's problem is it's low dps makes any offensive or midfielding very unreliable and weak, and its low protection. (I noticed that ninja can do up to 4-5 hearts per hit, that's ridiculous) Not to mention to do any killing or maneuvering takes up almost all of elf's arrows weakening the class even more. Elf needs a way to conservatively save arrows while having a decent dps and greater defense.

    Elf's abilities also need to be fixed. The shield (forcefield, bubble, green circle, ect) doesn't reflect most of mage's spells, reflecting pyro's arrows still burn you, and reflecting chemist's poison pots back at them can still poison you. The water arrow's radius needs to be increased because the arrow wont always give you resistance and/or extinguish you, and the wind arrow not always pushing players (Sometimes it will teleport players into the arrow?) The earth element is next to useless, it seems like that element is just there to be flashy. Not only does it do very little damage, but the amount of time it takes to draw the bow back all the way and hit the player with the element, the slowness effect has already gone away the time you get near them. There are few instances where the earth element is useful, but I really only use it for checking for any invis ninjas.

    The wind element nerf needs to be removed. I get that you give up power for mobility, and I like that, but why sacrifice your power if your mobility is so limited?

    tl;dr: Elf's damage output is fine (imo), but the dps is so low that it diminishes it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. pookeythekid

    pookeythekid Well-Known Member

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    See the first bit of this whole thread, look at Blitz's post that I mentioned. He covered everything you just said, and I agree with everything he said. Also, the very first words of this thread are "Step 1: remove the wind element nerf."

    Bump. Anyone else wanna talk about this?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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