Idea Scout and Stalemates

Hey guys, I just wanted to make this thread to tell people what I think, what I think should be done, and to spark discussion on it all.

So basically every PPM i have recently played on, and there has been a stalemate (and the hosts unlock scout but that's for another time), I've tried to play scout and play around with its abilities during stalemates. So far it's been fantastic, but I don't think it's enough. Here's why:

Scout can swap a flag carrier to an isolated position, and into the scouts teammates for an easy recovery, or the scout can run back and try to burst them down with death tag. This is really a good strategy if you have good coordination, or if the enemy team isn't watching out for scouts. It doesn't work at all if they're in a position where it's hard to swap or a swap would be pointless, like a stalemate on OCV.

Scouts can swap a supporting medic out, and have ninjas waiting with it, death tag it, and try to burst it down before a medic gets back. This is really good, unless the flag carrier can run away, or it has other support. If they're drowning in players, or if the medic doesn't get swapped away enough, it's useless.

Another option i have found is swapping someone off the map, or into spawn. But that's such a low chance, that I'm not really considering it as an option.

In all, this has been really effective in handling stalemates, whether it's ending the stalemate on its own, or drawing pressure away from a different recovery. However it's not enough. Once people learn how to counter what scout can do for stalemates, scout will be very hard to recover. It's not like a pyro or an archer where even if you know of it's existence it can still hurt you, it's much to squishy, and it's skill shot it very hard to hit, and one mistake can be fatal to you.

What I think should happen:
Something else needs to be added to help end stalemates in tankier maps. If a medic holds the flag on a map thats not super archer friendly, there's one or two solid recovery options. And they're circumstantially solid. My idea earlier (buffs after time) be a little too much with scout doing what it can. But with people asking for a nerf on death tag, it may be needed. Even something minor, all classes gain a small amount of resistance when near their own stolen flag.

However, another thing scout absolutely needs is survivability after a snowball. If you want to nerf death tag, thats fine, but you need to do this. The first time a scout hits someone with a snowball every 20 seconds, they gain resistance 3 (i believe 60% reduction) for 4 seconds (numbers can be smudged around). This would provide scout with ample time to give a death tag to a flag carrier, do it's damage without having to worry about getting one shot and only getting 2 or 3 hits off. It would also not make scout capping too op, with the 20 second cool down when it swaps to steal.


Anyways, that's what I've seen and what I believe, but anyone can have their own opinions, you may agree or disagree, but definitely jot your thoughts down so we can get some of this stuff fixed.

 

That actually is a really good point about the damage reduction, but I think it’s kinda necessary. If the damage reduction is added then the death tag needs to be reduced a little to balance it out. This would provide a solid recovery class that can impact the game without being too broken.

If you have read my thread about my stalemate idea, which is similar to health reduction but instead of reducing health over time a recovery force is buffed near it’s flag, I think it sums up why the health reduction failed. The health reduction was a bad idea because it hurt the flag carrier instead of helped the recovery. It provided no skill curve, if you’re a soldier missing 4 hearts a ninja can two tap you and a pyro won’t really even need frenzy. It would be way too easy to recover without doing anything, the flag carrier would be helpless a lot of the time, especially if they stole the flag a good minute before the other team did.

With buffs to the recovery team, that would provide them with a chance to kill off support, and the flag carrier with different strategies then a simple archer or pyro one tap. But it would still provide the defending team a chance to counter the buffs in a stalemate, balancing it a lot more

Edit: I reread that and realized that in matches its not that often where it’s just a medic and a soldier (or capping class) running and are in a position where scout can reliably hit. I don’t think it’s that powerful and scout can only get so many hits off in 4 seconds it would have a reduction. Not to mention it you’re soldier you can fly up, or if you’re chemist if you can pot it and run away, and if you’re something like heavy well you kinda need to have trouble with something like that since really only instakills can reliably kill you. That’s not all the capping classes but for sure there are other options.

 

Yeah and when I think, I think in comp so we're coming at it from different views. For sure tho most of the recurring players in CTF, play in at least ppms and the comp scene is why 2/3 of the player base is still here so i think saying it's not important is wrong.

However that change is really good, it allows scout to be able to fight a flag carrier while there's support without having it be impossible to 1v1 against.

And what Im saying is not to never punish a flag carrier, or not to never make it harder to be a flag carrier, but that change can leave most flag carriers super invulnerable. I know the health thing sounds like a good idea, but i just deleted like two paragraphs explaining as to why it's a bad one, because i was spewing the same sentence over and over. Basically, health reduction turns a good soldier (or capper) into a sitting duck, even if you're at 6 hearts and have a ton of support you can still get focused out by other players, like a buffed ninja can 1v1 you in the middle of your support and you'd die and there's nothing they can do. But instead with buffs, the enemy team can send in a couple of heavies or soldiers or medics and have them have to use strategy and teamwork to kill you off.
Now instead of making the flag carrier worse against everyone else, you're making everyone else a little bit better than everyone else, which is more fair, rewards good gameplay from both sides.

I'm sorry if you don't totally get what I'm trying to say, I'll figure out how to better put it into words.