Minecraft 1.8 Combat

Hello everyone!

I've seen a lot of controversy about the combat system in place as of the 1.8 update. Although it is not only limited to this community, I'd like to try to aid in the understanding of whats been changed, as well as the basic concepts that were in place before. I'd like to note that I'm not going to be going into the obvious changes, like criticals increased damage, as I don't find it important. I am also aware that there are other threads about similar subjects, however I thought it necessary to create a thread of its own for this mouthful.

If you were around in the good ol' MCPvP days, you may remember a similar thread I made about the existence of reach hacks. Sadly, the information provided was slightly outdated, and now with the come of 1.8, combat has changed yet again, leaving my old information in the dust.

I'll start with reach; The reach set in Minecraft has become more and more dynamic throughout the evolution of the game. It's a slippery subject, and slightly hard to cover every point which must be made, however I'll do my best.

Your reach inside Minecraft is dependent on several things, but the most significant is by far server type. We'll focus on that to begin with. If you're still sketchy on what I'm referring to, in simpler terms, I mean Bukkit, NCP Bukkit, Vanilla, and Creative. The idea of reach being reliant on the server type was first introduced in 1.7, where the default x block reach was exchanged for a varying one dependent on the server.

With the 1.8 update, reach has changed slightly, and is one of the reasons that PvP feels so different, and even broken after previous versions. The way it works is directly reliant on whether you hit someone first, or get hit when first joining a server. If you're lucky enough to strike first, you're automatically granted 0.25 block(s) of extra reach. On the other hand, if you're not fortunate enough to strike first, your reach is decreased slightly. Whether this change was adopted in an effort to diversify PvP, or simply a mistake is a mystery to me. This wouldn't be such a big deal if it were different for every fight, however the disposition or advantage is adopted until you log out and back into the server. This is why sometimes you can combo someone without them being able to touch you, or vice versa!

Like stated before, reach isn't only effected by the type of server, other factors such as movement, placement, and PZ play major roles as well. Ping is a bit hard to understand, so I think its fair to begin by explaining it before I go into player position.

Let me start off by stating this, ping does not directly effect reach contrary to popular belief. I always see people calling out that the only reason they lost was because of ping, this simply isn't true. Yes, it can effect you slightly, however barely enough to sway the battles outcome. Lets take the definition directly off of wikipedia.

Ping - query (another computer on a network) to determine whether there is a connection to it.

The simplest way stated, which I'm gonna yoink real quick, is this. "The amount of time, in milliseconds, that it takes for one packet to reach a server" and as we all know, a packet is just a bit of data, such as chat messages, punching, placing objects, ect. So lets think about this. There are 1000 milliseconds in a second. Minecraft divides every action into 20 ticks, this means that "Minecraft's game loop normally runs at a fixed rate of 20 cycles per second". This means that Minecraft can only register 50 milliseconds per second, this leaves a 9950 milliseconds gap, where they don't get registered. What most don't understand is that ping does not control or manipulate your reach, it simply puts a delay on packets being sent, which in turn slows hits, breaking of objects, ect. This can give the impression of increased or decreased reach. The speed of the packets can be registered in ping zones.

In order to explain further I'm going to steal the idea of PZ's. This basically says that everything within the 0-50 ping zone cannot be distinguished from each other, because it's exactly the same. From 51-100 is the next best thing, and within that window it's impossible to distinguish a difference in the ping. This continues up, counting by 50's. This means that if you had 90 ping and I had 80 we'd both be striking at the same speed. However if my ping was raised to 110, we would notice a difference. The reason that you might seem to have more reach than me on my side is because of the 200 MF, but that's something else entirely. It's also worth noting that the MF does not effect strikes, those are still reliant on PZ's.

As for placement, moving around in Minecraft can actually change the ability you have to reach your target. As I said before, it's dynamic, and can vary most times. Dumbed down, what I'm referring to is standing in one spot, both players moving towards each other, and both players moving in the same direction, one standing still with the other charging, ect. For ease of explanation, lets consider a Vanilla server.

I'll cover several scenarios that could occur for you in game. This is all assuming that no NCP is in place. If you and I were standing still across from each other, our reach would span 3.5 blocks. This means that we would be able to strike each other that many blocks apart. In the event that I charged toward you while you stood still, the reach for each of us would be different. I, being the one charging, would have a reach of 5 blocks. However you, being the one standing still, would have a reach of 6 blocks.

I'd also like you to note that this is not the same thing as player disposition, this simply shows how sprinting/standing can effect the reach and range of your strikes. If you want to read about player disposition, here's a quick explanation.

Spoiler: Player Disposition

Ahoy mates!

Ahh, the last thread of the night, woohoo! I've actually got soar fingers from typing so much, lol!

Ok, straight to the point! If you've made it this far, then I know you're interested in MineCraft mechanics, and that you want to know more! I will not fail to please!

In this thread I'm going to talk about the most annoying glitch in MineCraft ever! Player disposition!

What is player disposition? Well, it's exactly as the name said! Simplified, it makes players appear to be in places that they're really not! But Ryuzaki, wait! Mojang said they patched this glitch in the 1.7 update, right? Wrong! Even though Mojang has claimed that they fixed this glitch, I find that it still occurs quite frequently! I mean, be honest, we've all died to that one guy who appeared to be noclipping through the floor, annoying, right? Well, the issue is I don't know if it can be patched, since it seems like more of a lag issue then clientside! Under great circumstances, we may eliminate it on most servers, however I believe that the ones with worse connections will always have this fault!

Player disposition was most common back in 1.3/4 days. It was so bad back then, that players would almost always appear invisible after teleporting! Well, let me rephrase that! Not invisible, simply... misplaced... See, what was happening was not some sort of magical invisibility glitch, it was simply that their body was being left behind somewhere else in the world! It usually fixed itself within a minute or so, but in that time you could be killed by someone who appeared to be underground, or by some sort of invisible spirit! Wait a minute, would it be possible to exploit this for PvP purposes...?

The answer is no! Unlike the other threads I've made today, there is actually no way to make this glitch occur intentionally, and exploit it! To my knowledge that is. If it was exploitable, it would quite possibly be the most overpowered glitch out there! Being able to hit someone when they can't hit you? PvP galore! Due to the fact that it occurs randomly I suppose you could constantly /spawn until it occured, however the effect wouldn't last forever! Again, it's not something you have to worry about when fighting people, lol!

Whoa, this has actually been my shortest one yet! Wow! Ahh well, I suppose short and sweet is better than long and sour, lol!

Once again, all feedback is greatly appreciated! If you see any mistakes, please let me know to prevent me from looking like an idiot, lol! Have a wonderful evening!

Now that you thoroughly understand reach and the concepts that control it, lets move on to the next change, click speed. During 1.7 and versions below it we were free to jitter click our hearts out, there was a limit, however it couldn't easily be reached by a human player. Sadly, those days are over.

As of 1.8, a new cap has been placed on the game itself which I myself personally don't like. Minecraft now limits players click speed, which has changed PvP drastically. You're no longer able to click faster than 15-20 CPS, if you exceed it then the hits are not registered. This really puts a damper on PvP in my opinion, however I do see where its coming from and the cause of it. I hope to see this removed in future updates.

Moving on, we must touch up on knock back. Knockback was, and has been a huge problem. Between the whole relog situation, as well as toggle sprint destroying the idea of sprint knock back in its own way, it's been bugged severely. Instead of going into insane detail about it again, I'll just quote myself from sometime last year.

Spoiler: Knockback

Hiya!

Today I'm going to attempt to create a detailed thread about the mechanics and innerworkings of knockback. Now, bare with me, I've done minor research on this matter, so some of the information may be inaccurate! However, I'm fairly sure I did a good job in testing my facts.

Alright, so lets start with the history of knockback! Wooo! We're back in history! Knockback has actually been the exact same for a very long time. The standard knockback distance for a standing hit ranges from 0.5 - 2 blocks, and the standard for sprinthitting is around 2 - 5 blocks, roughly. Doesn't seem to insane, right? Well, it gets to some crazy levels!

As I said above, knockback has been the same forever, so why all of a sudden say that it's buggy? Well, knockback itself hasn't actually changed, it's the togglesprint keybind that has. Recently in MineCraft 1.6/7, a new key was added to vanilla MineCraft, a sprint key. I'm sure everyone knows about it, so I won't go into detail about it. Just know, it's the reason everything is bugged!

Now that we have autosprinting in mind, let me explain how it changed MineCraft. Basically, it's almost like a sprint that isn't a sprint, if that makes any sense at all. I don't mean you slow down, or you don't jump as far, I mean that it messed with our knockback! In a combo, if you sprint manually you can get some crazy knockbacks on your hits. So, why not just hold a key down to do it now? Won't it be the same? No! The way it works is the first time you hit another player, that player is sent back 2 - 5 blocks, however all hits that follow that while still holding that sprint key are actually registering as standing hits. This means that you only get one sprint hit, and all attacks that follow are nonsprint, which means less knockback. But does that even matter? I mean, who a few blocks less knockback can't hurt me in combat, well lets ponder over this!

Before I explain how this is significant, I need to go a bit off topic to explain how knockback distances are dished out.

In my testing, I've found that whoever is the last person to log into a MineCraft server gets the normal knockback, which is what everyone should get. This leaves everyone else who joined beforehand with a terrible disadvantage, less knockback. I think it's got something to do with how MineCraft prioritizes players. Again, this is a speculation, but it seems as though it forgets about all the other players online when it comes to determining knockback distances. Basically, while I was getting knocked back around 4 blocks every sprint hit, my other account, which logged in before me, was being hit 6 blocks! Crazy, right? Don't get me wrong, I know a 2 block difference doesn't seem like much, however, when you're actually PvPing against really high knockback can be tedius! If someone learned how to use this effectively, they'd be able to have the advantage in every fight, except when it comes to running of course, lol!

Now back to what I was saying earlier, if this is how it works, is it usable? In testing, I've found that it is indeed exploitable! Though it is not a glitch, if you time your sprints perfectly with each hit, you can get some crazy knockback going! Does that really matter though? Well yes! Lets think about that this knockback for a second.

If the average person is sprint hitting me, holding down their sprint key, they're getting a 2 - 5 block knockback the first hit, then a 0.5 - 2 block knockback all hits that follow. Me, on the other hand, who joined after everyone else, can time my sprints, hitting 6 blocks every time! Isn't that amazing? At maximum I could be hit 7 blocks back in two hits, while my enemy could be hit 12! Given the fact that all fights last longer than 2 strikes, you're dealing with a very overpowered player, especially when it comes to fighting in places where you could potentially fall to your death. We don't need another 300 moment, lol!

Can this glitch in the system be prevented? As of now I'm doubtful. As said before, it seems to actually be something in the inner code of MineCraft which is causing this to occur, so as of now, it looks like we'll just have to live with it! Just remember that if you get challenged by a friend, be the last one to join the server, lol!

TL;DR - Knockback was changed in 1.7/6 by Mojang adding a sprint key. It makes all hits after the first one behave like standing strikes, making the knockback less. Also, the last player to join the server gains the normal knockback, while he himself can dish out 6 block knockback each sprint hit!

Thanks for reading! I know I tend to trail on sometimes, but in the least I hope I educated you a bit more on how knockback works. Any feedback or corrections are extremely appreciated. Have a wonderful day!

With the 1.8 update, we got a few changes. While the whole toggle sprint bug remains, as you probably know the knock back having to do with relogging was fixed somewhere along the line in 1.7. This meant not only that knock back was less buggy, but also that you didn't have to worry about it varying from player to player, it was set. For reference, without sprinting you can knock someone back 2 blocks, and with, 5 blocks. Since 1.8, knock back was actually reduced slightly. Not enough to actually notice in a fast paced fight, however around 0.5 block(s) or so. I'd like you to keep in mind that this is the reason that fleeing in 1.8 is so difficult, because the pursuing player knocks you forward less, and has more times to get his/her hits in.

Phew! Kind've a long read, and trust me, my fingers are aching! I appreciate anyone who was able to bare the unnecessarily long explanation given here, and I hope this helps give you a better understanding of why 1.8 combat feels different!

 

@MrWaffleman - Thanks for the positive feedback!

I do hope this puts to bed the constant debating over what happened to combat with the update of 1.8.

@LennyFace - I was thinking about that while I was writing it. No one in their right mind would read every word I put there, lol! But, I've got you covered!

Tl;dr - 1.8 puts a cap on clicking, makes reach vary, and knockback decreased slightly. To add, ping doesn't effect reach, however it does effect effect the speed at which your strikes register.

 

Never! No one is more knowledgeable as you, MrWaffleman!

 

@MR_EVIL_OVERLORD - Thanks for the warm feedback! I'm glad that you enjoy the style I write, however like I said before my English is a tiny bit sketchy, haha! As time goes on I'm getting better, practice makes perfect, so what better way to practice than to write essays wherever I go?

@DjFireFoox - Thanks for commenting! A lot of servers claimed to have fixed the problem while it was prominent, however unfortunately I had bad experiences with their patches. Even going back to the old MCPvP server, I don't recall a change effecting relog until around 1.7.10, which is when it was officially patched.

@GeothermalSucks - Thanks for leaving me a comment my friend! Like stated above, the whole relog situation was fixed with the coming of 1.7.10. However, I don't think this is the last we'll see of the matter in the long run.

@Creaturelord - Obrigado por responder meu amigo! Não consigo entender como isso se relaciona com o que ele disse? No entanto, espero que isso te ajudou a entender a mecânica por trás do jogo melhor! (Perdoe-me, meu português está enferrujada..)

 

@stake_dude4McPvP - I appreciate you leaving me a comment my friend! Let's see if I can help clear some things up.

I had a really hard time fitting what I was attempting to say into a short, compact yet easy to understand paragraph. I'm glad you asked, because if you didn't I'm sure someone else would have!

If we go back to the scenario you presented, your second theory would be the correct one. Every other player would have to either get hit (Causing a decrease in reach) or hit someone first (Causing a buff of sorts). You and your opponent would be isolated, and whatever happened in your fight would not effect the other 22 players. However, whatever the outcome of the first fight, it would carry over, meaning that if you then got into a fight with someone with the increased reach, you would have a harder time hitting them (Assuming you got struck first). The only way to undo it is to relog, which is why some fights seem terribly unbalanced.

I appreciate you asking this too, as it was another sketchy part of my post. The answer is yes, if you were to time your sprints correctly using the 'W' key, you would receive the sprint knock back every strike. However, if you simply held toggle sprint, only the first hit would give you the full effect of sprint knock back.

I hope that cleared it up for you!