Idea NERF HEADSHOT

would rather have it useless than have it dominate the entire mid and defense which is what it does atm. ive always thought a ranged class in a primarily melee class based game was really out of place cuz theres no easy way to counter it and its rlly difficult to rework it without making it totally useless

 

Not many of those around, if any at all. Players are always on the lookout for archers, especially in prime arching spots where it's hard to see the archer. That's directly because of the headshot mechanic. It follows logic mainly, if you can see them they can see you

 

I agree you should look at my idea ^_^

I think you can have Archer as a ranged class but it's ridiculous how you can sit somewhere and machine gun your way to a big killstreak.

 

Dwarf can block its sword to block head shots. Since dwarf is more of an defense class and most flags are unheadshottable, dwarf wouldn't be affected by archer

 

In reality the instakill is OP is some cases and less so on others. Since I'm talking about extents here, then I would have to say the pyro and assassin instakills are actually more overpowered than the archery insta-kill. Whilst you do have to get close in order to kill, once this is done it's relatively straightforward to pull off. In assassins case you just need a better ping and be quick right and left clicking for the kill. In pyro's case you just have to set them on fire first, which can be done both long and short range. With archer it's long range yes, but realistically you have to hit a target using a bow and arrow from 30+ blocks away where they can see you and attempt to avoid the attack. Moreover archer is a rather special case because of it's ranged style at the moment. This is because at the moment archer is one of the few ranged classes, and it's very design means it's meant to counter long range and be countered short range. It may be too good at it's long ranged countering, but nevertheless reworking archer to change it's instakill into a non-instakill is not going to change the class to what people seem to think it will become. No matter how you change instakills for archer, the end result means it should still fullfill it's role the same as before, and whether its got an instakill or not it should still be able to perform that role. That means for everyone who thinks that it'll make a massive difference, it'll mean that they're still going to end up dying to an archer long range, because that's what archer is meant to do. @Admiral_Munson already quoted a long paragraph I wrote on his thread where I explained that the main problems with archer would not be solved by changing it's instakill much, and the reason for that is it's not really the main focus of the problems with the class. In my opinion the main problem with archer is it's knockback on the bow. Now I explained before about how archer is meant to counter long ranged and be countered short range. That punch 2 is too effective at pushing back players into headshot range, thus making archer much harder to counter short range than perhaps it should be. That knockback also means archers feel safer in one camping position, where really there's only one way to reach them, they have access to kills long range and can knock them back short range. It also encourages bowspam, where you have a random chance to knockback enemies defending yourself despite it being really really cheap. My suggestion is that archer is a special case, and that the real focus shouldn't be on that instakill as many hate on, but really the punch effect where archers can cover their real weakness, short range combat

 

Huh? Where is this concept of balanced and unbalanced instant kills coming from? Instant kills are a one hit kill, so I really don't see how you can argue that the concept of instant kills can be balanced in any situation. In fact, arguing that instant kills are 'balanced' if the situation when they occur is more fair - is like arguing that a 50% is a better grade than a 45% on a test. Getting a slightly higher F grade doesn't make it better! You don't get a F+ or something you get an F because you failed.

Also, I'd like to rephrase your statement that Assassin is a 'balanced' instant kill to that it is a broken mechanic. Assassin's instant kill is either horribly OP or extremely weak. Its instant kill is OP sometimes because it allows you to one shot a whole group of people at any given point (although this doesn't happen a lot) and that is ridiculously unbalanced. Furthermore, Assassin's instant kill is extremely weak because it depends far too much on luck, lag, block glitches, or incredibly stupid people to work and if none of these things are working in Assassin's favor it can be one shot the second it toggles its Assassinate. Thus, Assassin's instant kill is broken because it either works extremely well or completely backfires and that does not sound like balance to me.

@LordCh4os way to make me feel special with those tags man

I agree that the punch is a major problem on Archer but so is the instant kill because on some maps (i.e. Blackout, Academy) Archers can just camp outside spawn and kill spawn kill like nobody's business.

 

Well we could put some of that down to the map rather than the instant kill? That said I shouldn't be able to do this:

Realistically if I'm getting that (and this isn't a one off, there have been higher numbers than that) Then even with the map in consideration there must be something to do with the class

 

That picture pretty much explains why Blackout should be reworked/removed and why you and Archer need a nerf.

 

Not actually a reply to your point but just pointing out that you can copy the opening brackets of a quote and use it to quote specific parts of a post instead of having to bold parts because brawl's forums are bad at quoting.

 

xD Chaos does need a nerf.

Anyway, just my opinion on Assassin. For the heck of it I'll add another note in Assassin's defense. When you see an Assassin coming your way--block! And don't un-block until you've counted two or three seconds. If they get you after that, congratulations, you just got redstone-faked. If you fight an Assassin like this and you lose "because of lag"... let's just say you're bound to die to any class with that much lag.

Edit: Wait a second, this is getting off-topic. Let's see... Archer should be reworked!

 

Okay but Assassin is still broken and so are instant kills

Hell lets just give Archer an efficiency V bow and call it good. Everyone likes a fun class right? What could be more fun than having the ultimate sniper class - for free! OOh I know lets also allow Archer to instant kill Chemist with its fist - and SHAZAM there's your free class Chemist counter!

 

Sounds gr8. c:

 

The most simplest way to nerf Archer is to increase the distance needed to head shot. That way it's easier for you to react when an arrow comes flying at your direction. Plus it'll become harder to head shoot with Archer. I'll leave this here for reference: Maybe make it 70 blocks or so.

EDIT: Let me make this clear that a distance of 30 blocks or more is needed for the Archer to head shoot the target. Just making that clear.

 

@Romaoplays Just wanna tell you, you actually can see where an arrow comes from, but it's usually too late to react by then. Though if you pay attention and remember the origin of the shot, you can go and revenge kill if the archer is a camper (the easiest way to do so is to use archer yourself).

@ProfeshunalSpelr That's really the max flight distance for an arrow? I've gotten a good number of headshots that seemed much longer...

 

You can avoid an archers instakill a lot easier than a pyros or an assassin. For a start pyro can set you on fire which slows you down making them outspeed and be able to instakill you with the axe. The assassin can outrun you with their speed bonus. In either case it's more difficult to get rid of them than an archer headshot because they're relying on accuracy and the further you are from one the less likely they are to hit. You can avoid an archer instakill more easily because of the time it takes to recharge their bow afterwards, meaning you can gather further distance and makes it harder. The pyro can try again immediately after and spam left-click their axe until they hit. Assassin only needs 1shot and half the time it's ping based meaning even if you attempt to block you may die

You can fairly easily find out if you just look for the archer...... I see archers all the time, usually they're in easily visible vantage points anyhow, and if they're not visible it's likely they can't see you and are randomkilling anyway. It's more down to luck you were killed anyway

fire reduces their run speed so he can easily catch up if they decide to run, I've done it multiple times

same can be said of all instakills, because you can't react to a 1 hit. You can attempt to avoid an archer arrow, a pyro axe or an assassin redstone, and sometimes you'll succeed when others you won't. Any instakill once it lands is uncounterable, so you can't react in any situation, so this is invalid in distinguishing the 3 instakill classes.

Like I said archers like to use vantage points so if you look in the right places they'll probably be very visible. Moreover archer headshots can be blocked by a dwarf and reflected by elf so they do have counters like pyro and assassin. Again this is invalid since there are counters available to archer too. You can run from them! An archer is likely to try predict your movement so if you move erratically they're less likely to hit you if you're trying to avoid them. You CAN avoid an archer headshot, and to be honest it's probably the easiest of the three to avoid. There are a lot more archers than the other 2 classes because it's the free instakill class, so you'll likely die more to that instakill than the others. With that said, archer is counterable short range so you could run away or towards them past the headshot range and you'll be safe in both circumstances.

I'm not an archer camper, and I know quite a few who don't either. The better archers tend to be the ones who camp less, and there are a lot of archer campers. A rework with the archer class should really make it more mobile. With that said, camping is a legitimate style of play so whilst it is hated, like it is with necro and engineer, we can't nerf archer because people use it to camp with. We can change it's role a bit but not nerf it because people use it in that way.

Not going to fix the problem really. All you'll do is increase archer camping because there are less places to headshot and boost random killing because archers can see less. The only thing you'll do is make fewer instakills, not fix most of the problems associated with archer, like the bowspam, or it's short range punch ability. It's a simple way, but not going to fix the problems

again, not the solution i'd go for because you won't fix any of the other problems associated with archer as I mentioned above, and so I don't think it's really going to work. I know I've said this a lot already, but @Admiral_Munson 's rework does that pretty well.

Overall, I'm not saying that archer isn't overpowered, but not to the extent you seem to think it is. Moreover, the solutions here aren't going to fix any of the other problems with archer that people hate, like bowspam

 

Nah you can keep saying that. I'm starting to enjoy this

Bowspam can 'kind of' be addressed by a rework @Miskey was talking about where there is a time cap on how long Archer can draw their bow all the way back. I think that would be a good thing to integrate into Archer because it would also give a slight nerf to Archer's ability to camp.