Elf - A New Focus

https://www.brawl.com/threads/65396/#post-826242

 

Could we pin this? I feel it's the 2nd most anticipated class tweaking next to Necro (let alone being a pretty in-depth tweaking)

 

I'm going to throw all the useful opinions about Elf in from the survey, hopefully some of this will be useful:
"Elf has a lot of potential, but how it currently is there is no reason to use it."
"it is pretty much outclassed by everything else in whatever field it may be good at."
"It does very little damage (without pure element) in addition to its lack of armor"
"Its abilities have been nerfed excessively... for some reason. Necro is a close second, however I don't see elf getting killstreaks like I do necro nowadays. Another reason, I don't really understand elf's purpose in a match setting; it seems like the community wanted a counter to pyro, mage, and archer at the time, and elf was the "solution" billhelm came up with. I say "solution" because elf doesn't really solve any of the problems it was designed for. I've heard it's a midfield class, but with mage and archer on the field, elf is somewhat obsolete. Some people use it for capping, but at this point the wind element is just a waste of arrows, and its low armor makes it vulnerable to basically every other class."
"Elf doesn't really fit a role, and it's not very strong in combat."
"Its pure element is trash, and as a whole (its armor, weapon, steak, and all of its other elements) make it the hardest class to play, not b/c of a incredible skill gap, but because it is essentially the weakest and least circumstantially beneficial."
"Needs more armour and hard to use abilities (takes too long to regen)"
"Dies too quick, not enough damage output or mobility."
"Although it can be useful, its rarely used in-game and takes a lot of skill to be any good at"
"With the exception of being a counter to archer, i dont see elf being used as anything more than a shield. Rarely any other abilities are used. "
"low armor, low damage, low arrows, too slow arrow regen... need I go on?"
"It's debatable. Elf can potentially have a very high damage output, but that requires a bunch of skill in order to be good at the class. If you don't have good aim, it's easy to die because it only has leather armor and quite a weak weapon."
"Too high of a learning curve for such mediocre results, bad armor and terrible loadout for a midranged class"
"Weak armor, even though the wind ability gives it a chance to escape faster and 6 steak is good for an offensive player. Still pretty weak imo"
"Maybe just a change a speed buff "
"Extreme skill cap, simply isn't effective 90% of the time"
"It can easily be killed in 3 or less"
"Because this class has very bad armor and low damage output, it's mobility isn't the best either"
"can't do much with arrows, has very little armor, hard to cap, hard to defend with"
"On the one hand I think that you can kill an Elf too easy, so Elf may need better amour. And on the other hand I can't see why you should play Elf in the general gameplay. The only really good thing is that you can fly a short time arround (like soldier). Maybe the Earth thing is also useful but without spamming the earth its hard to do real dmg on somebody. A good thing on Elf is that you can block arrows for a short time."
"Utility can only be abused, not played fairly"
"It's fairly mobile, but otherwise not too useful in combat & has weak armour"
"it has many jobs but it can't really do them exceptionally well. Everything it does another class can do better."
"Elf needs to become more focused on either supporting offense or helping defense. It's somewhat good at a lot of things, but it's weak armor and situational damage make if very difficult to use effectively unless you're one of the few who are godly at it."
"Best used as support, very dependent on others"
"Most of the abilities can be difficult to use unless practiced often. It has low armor and it is easy to mess up when playing this class."
"It tries to replicate a soldier and archer mix, but fails in actual gameplay. It has terrible armor, and its arrows run out very fast."

and finally:

"Because it's elf"

 

I like the direction you guys seem to be taking with the class. Elf to me has always seemed like it's trying to be versatile but can't really be effective at any of the 3 roles (Offense Defense and Support). It has potential to be the replacement of Chemist as the jack of all trades class of CTF, but Chemist is still better. It's wind element and armor aren't good enough to cap, maybe to kill their recov but ninja and heavy are better at that. I would like to say it's best suited for defense, however in regular CTF games, flagrooms are crowded and small, therefore making the Earth element a nuisance, Wind knockback is just plain useless, and it's too crowded to get a Pure element combo off. And the only Support factor of the class is the Water element, which isn't very useful compared to what a Chemist can give.

However one can argue that Elf is a high-skill cap class, and that's cool. I would be fine if that were actually the case. I, personally, never have any problems against any elf, even if they main it or not. Sure, they're annoying at times but are not hard to kill or recover off of. Elf, simply put, is just not good.

I'd like to see Elf replace Chemist as the versatile "everything" class. Elf needs to be expanded so it's abilities are fun for the player and the opponent. Right now it's not fun for either (for me at least). It seems Elf was the "counter everything" class because it seems to have an ability to counter everything. To me I think people who developed the class kinda just said "people want a new class and want all these existing classes fixed, so lets just make a class to counter all those problems." And the thing is it doesn't even fix any of the problems it was designed to fix. I don't think it's fun to play the counter class so, that's my opinion.

 

The jack of all trades idea is a nice one, and since elf has so many abilities, 4 elements, sword and shield, it could potentially be done, but it would have to be thought about very carefully. I think @GalaThundR's idea with permanent speed 1 is a good starting place, for the reasons he explained, and to give good manoeverability to compensate for it's weak armour. Also, speed 1 would allow good movement between roles, and would make midfield elf much more effective since moving into position would be that much easier.

I had a couple of ideas for pure element changes, though I didn't much go into depth of thought about them, so feedback would be great. I think both of these suit the jack of all trades role.
1. Pure element's pure damage is changed from 6 hearts to 4 hearts but applies 3 second slowness to the enemy that got pure elemented.
Or
2. For each pure element explosion you land, you gain regen 1 for 5 seconds.
1 would support the jack of all trades role since it applies an additional debuff, this would be used mostly on defense or midfield but could be used offensively in order to slow the pyro.
2 would support mostly midfield elf since midfield classes generally don't have a medic very often, self sustain is very important, and if regen comes from pure element (the main damage dealing element) elf would be very reliable for self sustainability. It could also be used pre-fight or even offensively, if you pure element and then go into sword combat.

 

Possible suggestion: Extend earth element's stun time.
The earth element is mainly used to earthbound soldiers which is grand and all but you basically have to spam the thing in order to get more than 1-2 hits in or let the defense do any real damage.
What if soldiers couldn't wall climb 1 second after being earthbounded?
*edit* also applies to elves using wind element.

 

When shifting while wind element is shot, pull enemy towards you; if not shifting, then away from you?
Although, this class already has a lot of random variability to it, so idk if ideas like this should be added.

Also, idk about the idea of permanent speed I - the wind element is already a little annoying in certain maps.

 

While the wind element may be annoying, it doesn't compare to soldier, since soldier has better armour and has faster wallclimb regen than elf has arrow regen.

 

pls give speed 1 guis i need 2 b able to elf cap moar

 

0xanything=0

 

Currently, Elf is very underpowered and doesn’t really have an exact role in the game. I believe that it should be an offensive/support class. Myself and Dan have come up with some ideas to buff the class.
Not all of these ideas should be added, this is mainly a pool of some ideas that the committee could use. And for anyone saying that I don't play elf, I have been playing it as my main for the past week and it has been Dan's main for a while.

Right now, there are several issues with Elf:
. Receives a lot of damage making it very easy to kill, ninjas can 3 shot elves.
. Arrows run out very fast, especially when capping with the wind. element.
. Not suited to a specific role and doesn't really counter anything.
. Certain elements should do more.
. Shield doesn't work properly.

The aim of this whole rework isn't to rework and add whole new mechanics but just to tweak small things.

Damage Received:
Currently Elf receives too much damage, there are multiple ways to fix that. Not all of these ideas should be added.

. Give Elf Protection 2 on all pieces of armour.
. Give Elf a helmet with protection 2.
. Give Elf regeneration 1 like medic.
. When using your shield, you regen 1 heart every 2 seconds.
. Flash Bombs, Fire and Debuff Potions will not do any damage or any of their abilities to an elf.
. Elf gets an extra row of hearts.
. Elf gets capability for an extra row of hearts however, they aren't full. Only steak, regeneration, heal potions or a medic can fill it up.

Arrows:
At the moment, arrows run out very quickly, there are a lot of ideas to resolve this issue. Not all of these ideas should be added.

. When a medic heals an Elf to give it it’s steak back, it should also receive 8 more arrows.
. Arrows regenerate 1.5x quicker than they do now.
. Arrows regenerate at the same speed as they do now, however there is a chance of receiving more than 1. 50% chance to get 1, 30% chance to get 2, 20% chance to get 3.
. Every kill an elf gets, it gets 4 arrows.
. Every time you land a pure element hit, you get 1 arrow.
. When using the shield, you receive 1 arrow every 1.5 seconds.

Earth Element:
. When you punch Earth Element, it gives you regeneration 3 for 3 seconds. Will take away 2 arrows.
. When you punch an enemy with Earth Element, freezes them for 2 seconds. Takes away 2 arrows.


Pure Element:
. When you punch with Pure Element, you get speed 2 for 3 seconds. Takes away 2 arrows.
. Punching an enemy with Pure Element will give them Wither effect for 2 seconds. Takes away 2 arrows.
. Your first hit will do normal damage, if you shoot them again, consecutively within 5 seconds, it will deal 7 hearts of damage. If you shoot them again within another 5 seconds, it will instakill them.


Water Element:
. When you punch with Water Element, it removes all allies fire within a 2 block radius including yourself. Takes away 2 arrows.
. When fully drawn, it removes all peoples fire within a 3 block radius and gives 10 seconds of resistance and fire resistance.

Wind Element:
. When you punch an enemy, it will push them back 5 blocks. Takes away 2 arrows.
. When fully drawn and aimed at a specific enemie, it will pull them 5 blocks towards you.
. When semi or a bit drawn, it will push them back like normal.

Shield:
. All projectiles will be reflected back except lightning spell.
. All projects with special abilities will reflect the ability as well (a pyro arrow will reflect the arrow and do the area fire radius explosion thing).

Other:
Passive Speed 1

Ideas contributed by myself and Dan (@Dan_7777777)

Thread got locked so moved it here.

 

The play style of elf seems to contribute mostly to support and utility. It is very good at disrupting enemies to help clear the flag room, stopping soldiers with its earth shot, and quenching fire and adding resistance with the water bow. The pure shot is a useful tool for damage, but the majority of its abilities come from its air, water, and earth bows.

With that being said, I think that any buff that Elf gets should focus on highlighting the support and utility aspects of its abilities, whether it highlights a specific ability, or slightly buffs every one in a distinct way.

Single Ability Highlight Ideas:

Wind Element: Buff the knockback against enemies and allow for knockback on direct hits to enemies.
Additionally, you could add a new aspect to the ability that 'empowers' allies with the power of the wind upon a direct hit, applying speed 1 or 2 (depends on balancing testing) for 5 seconds to a single ally. This lets the air shot have a bit more power and utility against enemies, and even adds a small supporting aspect to this ability.

Water Element: Keep the current resistance and fire quenching mechanics, add regen 1 for 5 seconds, and apply fire resistance for 5 seconds. This highlights the water shot's supporting nature, allowing you to heal flag carriers for a small amount and help protect your allies from those pesky pyros.

Alternate Water Element Buff: Keep the current mechanics, but add a new mechanic that prevents enemy pyros from using their bow or flint and steel for 5 seconds. If the pyro can activate frenzy during this 5 second duration, it immediately cleanses the bow and flit and steel lock. This allows the elf to be a soft counter to pyro, as it can still easily die to the superior melee damage of pyros and other classes, and increases elf's support and utility.

Multiple Ability Highlight Idea:

Add regen 1 for 5 seconds to the water shot OR add fire resistance for 5 seconds to the water shot to increase its utility potential.

Increase the knockback on the air shot and/or allow for knockback with direct hits,

and Increase the number of arrows for the wind, water, and/or earth shot by 2, to allow for more potential to support your team.

@wintergreen3 @Dankmastr_Memesn

 

I would like to add an optional ability for elfs wind ability.
- Shift first and pull back bow and launch several blocks in the direction nearly instantly.

The reason I would like this to happen is because you cannot escape most flag rooms without getting cornered and you cannot fly without being hit twice as far than using the wind element. If you use this ability carefully, you can some how slip by enemies in and out of the flag room withought flailing and failing to try to land perfectly into the center and grabbing the flag and escaping with little to no health and surviving the trip to your own flag to win...*sigh*

 

ELF BUFF?? SIGN ME UP!

While most of what would help elf has been already said, id just like to make some suggestions to make some of elfs current options more helpful. (please i know my grammar is garbage dont bother me for it)

Elf arrow regen is still bad, to escape from 1 person alone on a map like blackout requires 4-6 arrows, 8-10 if you're going onto a higher platform, and then you'd need to wait a good 15-30 seconds to be able to aid someone entering a flagroom or enter it yourself. Within that time a ninja could come after you 2 times as long as their pearls dont get reflected.

Wind Element should knock a larger radius and/or a further away with a small increase vertically (but not too far). This would be useful on offensive support in a flagroom to knock people away from a stealer or player denial from recovery, as well as allow elf to knock people off edges with guardrail blocks. If this becomes too spammable then increasing the arrow cost is acceptable, as long as the regen is increased.

Water Element should have a longer resistance span, probably around 10-15 seconds would be okay.

Earth Element NEEDS a longer stun time, i don't care if the cost is increased by 2 more or a cooldown is added, stopping a soldier from climbing always requires 2-3 shots and the reason elves earth spam is because stopping someone for .5 a second isn't really helpful in the slightest.

Elf's shield NEEDS to be fixed to mage's projectiles and pyro arrows, currently because it does not reflect mage damage, while shielding, a mage just repositions further away because blocking and shifting effectively stops you in your place, forcing you to shield while a mage spams projectiles until thunder becomes usable again, this is what reflect was made to PREVENT. With pyro the problem is that even if you reflect the arrow, 1. they and anyone near them dont get set on fire 2. you and any ally you're protecting might STILL get set on fire allowing the pyro to deal its true damage even though you outplayed him.
(what i would think would be cool is if elf's shield stayed for a short time instead of instantly disappearing, this would make matchups like elf vs ninja and elf vs chemist doable because eggs/pots destroy elf, as well as provide a decent counter to mage)

I personally think that elfs armor, sword, and pure element are currently ok, elf shouldnt have high dps or high armor because its a mobility-based support class.

thanks for listening [:

 

I would personally like to see elf take a more slippery support/defense role.
I think it would be useful if the water element could be used to give teammates temporary projectile shields that stay around them for a couple seconds. ex: shooting a teammate with a full drawn bow gives them an elf shield that follows them for 5 seconds.

 

We can just start with buffing the armor (honestly, elf can not take a hit) and reducing the cost of all its abilities to one arrow, or increase the total amount of arrows in elf's possesion. The arrow thing because, well, elf is somewhat like a chemist with bows instead of pots, the main problem is the elf actually has to aim, no offense to any chemist mains, that's not what this is about. This wouldn't be a problem if a large majority of the community mained archer at some point, but we all know that isn't the case. I've found that an elf can take out a heavy with relative ease, as long as the elf can actually aim. The class has loads of potential, but as a relatively new class, it hasn't had the years that the others have had to develop a ton of players who can main it effectively, so we have to compensate for this.

 

I think it would be helpful if arrows deflected from Pyros didn't still set you on fire; If you're in a flagroom and deflect a Pyro's arrrow and it lands within a few blocks of you you are still set of fire. Being able to stop the Pyro from setting the Elf and its teammates on fire would make it a great offensive support class.

 

fINALlY

A few fixes I'd like for Elf:

• Buffed armor (just slightly more)
• More powerful wind boost (2-3 more blocks would be fine)
• Shield timer increase (about 3-4 more seconds)
• Faster arrow regeneration
  (I'm not sure how I feel about speed I)

These are just general fixes I want done before any big changes.
Feel free to ask for more details ;D

 

I really like the ideas of @GoToBed and @Dan_7777777. Most, if not everything, that I would like in Elf, they have already covered.

Speed I would be really useful. Ordinarily, one has to spam /b and hope for some kind chemist to walk out of spawn and throw a pot your way. It's also all too easy to be run down by pesky ninjas and assassins (granted, ninja is mobility-oriented and has ender pearls). Giving the Water Element the ability to be punched and extinguish yourself (and teammates) is also needed, making it better able to withstand frenzy - it doesn't take much to drain those 5 steaks, and drawing the Water Element bow back while running can be cumbersome, if not counter-productive. Speaking of steaks, I like the idea of Water Element having regen (I'm not sure if it does or not - I've never held onto it long enough to find out). I think the Wind Element (shooting it) is fine. You can deal some serious fall damage by shooting the block underneath your target. As for flying, a few clicks and you have exhausted your arrows; having Medic restore your arrows, as well as having them regenerate a bit faster, would do wonders for Elf. Finally, @rayquaza611's idea of a residual shield would be useful for dodging the spell-spam of mages (particularly the damage spell, which stops you from advancing towards the mage). Edit: I knew I was forgetting something.. Do buff Elf's armor too, for in close-quarter combat, Elf's odds aren't too good (not that I am good at melee anyways).

These are just my thoughts. I hope you found them useful in some way - thanks for reading.

 

Defensive style elf seems awesome because I have a soft spot in my heart for supports/tanks.