Idea Necro Rework

I was just trying to make the class a bit less like heavy because it is still a melee class with no special abilities [in its various forms it has special abilities but they are not as big as assassin's insta kill]. As mentioned earlier, necro players would use blaze mode more often due to the fact that it has no actual debuffs [if for the water element regeneration 2= poison 2 then water element will do 4 hearts which is not a lot and most maps do not have much water in it]. This is why i proposed a change to make the class a bit less like heavy.

Since skeletons have a bow, skeleton form should also get a bow with a certain amount of arrows. Also blazes can shoot fireballs, blaze form should also be able to shoot fireballs.

These ideas perhaps would give necro a ranged ability, which therefore makes it less like heavy. However with these buffs must come with debuffs and you can decide that if my idea is implemented in your post [little chance my idea is suitable though].

 

yo waddup inactive forum troll here here to give you some of that daaaaaaaaaank feedback (in 5,000 words or less!)

jokes aside I like the idea behind this rework but the rework itself seems kinda weak. It's also boring. Necro gains or loses some stats with each form but the only interesting thing (imo) is headshot immunity in zombie form. To "break it down" as you say, I've listed each form here with my opinion of them

Zombie form:

the only scenario where I could see anyone actually using this would be if they're tanking damage in a fight and need some buffs to avoid dying. But since Necro armor is significantly worse than Heavy armor - and on par with soldier, medic, and archer - resistance 1 is not going to make you tanky enough for you to survive for very long. You also don't get a damage steroid so it feels like a weaker heavy/ripoff dwarf. It seems like you want to make Necro tanky with this

but it doesn't work when you impair its mobility while it has comparable/weaker resistances to solider & heavy. It also doesn't work when the slowness just makes Necro even more susceptible to Assassins and Ninjas (it is not a 'tank' when it can be 1 hit at all times). Clarity on this would be appreciated

Skeleton form/Blaze Form:

I didn't know weakness 3 was a thing. I also don't know what it's doing in this rework. It's like you came up with a new, creative way to make Necro do absolutely no damage. The speed 1 buff also doesn't turn Necro into a recovery or capture class either since Assassin, Ninja, and Chemist are all faster or have more mobility (Ninja enderpearls). Theoretically this could work well with the Blaze form to steal the flag from Pyro but the cooldown between form shifts ruins this. And, once again, the class can be easily killed by Assassins. This isn't Mage where you can actually reliably deny Assassins if you're good enough - via your cc chain (ice spell, knockback, and flame spell). Necro has no effective engage or disengage from a class that can quickly gapclose and one hit. Medic and Chemist also easily outclass Necro for this reason, and they also have comparable/much higher dps (especially Chemist).

Ofc if your answer to that is 'teamwork' then sure, teamwork. It's a team game and that's a fair answer. But classes should excel at something and this Necro is bad as far as capturing is concerned (which is an issue since you say it's one of the primary functions of the class). Even current Necro might be better because, on certain maps, you can effectively distract with your mobs and steal the flag in the meantime. This rework is also somewhat situational with capturing. Sure it could be useful on maps like Opposites Collide where there's actually lava but a lot of maps don't have lava. And other maps, like Beaver Creek or Orchid Cascades, it's comparatively weak (due to you know, more water).

I combined the two forms into one section because it seems like they were meant to be used together more than the Zombie form.

As for the fire aspect shovel, that's a knockoff version of 2012 Necro with its sharpness IV, fire aspect wooden sword. I don't see how it's OP. It could even make for some interesting teamplay. It also boosts Necro's damage - the only ability in any form that does. And coincidentally, it's about the only thing I like in this rework.

Other criticisms/observations:

It's obvious that this Necro is designed around the team scene. I think that's the wrong way to go for two reasons: 1) huge playstyle/skill level difference between most people on teams and casual players, and 2) the team scene originated from the casual scene

I understand you have deep thoughts but we do not need a 500 word segment about how "reworks of a class should address issues with that class" and so on. You made a rework? Great. Let's see the rework. Everyone already knows that Necro is trash. There's been 50 previous threads about how Necro is trash, just because you said it with more words doesn't make it more trash.

Okay

Yes you have said that already.

How many more ways can you think of to say 'useless'?

So... useless?

Man it's almost like Necro is useless or something

There is no need to repeat yourself this much. Everyone knows you have a big vocabulary and like to write large paragraphs. That is not why they (or I) read this thread. I even reread this post to make sure I didn't repeat myself. You should give everyone else the same consideration.

You point out that Necro does little damage, and I agree. That is a legitimate problem with Necro. Yet in your rework you introduce nothing to actually fix this problem - the fire shovel aside. If I'm wrong about that correct me, by all means. But I'm not seeing the fix here.

You talk about creating something that players would enjoy playing. Since when did anyone enjoy playing balanced classes? I mean, isn't the reason why you play so much Archer because the class is inherently imbalanced - towards you? That's why I enjoy Engineer and hate Elf.

No I don't think you are. You literally wrote a 608 word dissertation against adding mobs to Necro (for distraction purposes or something else - which you agree would be useful for capturing) and when @StormNox suggested adding some special abilities (something which I'd also like to see) you said

How so? Abilities, outside of what you've listed, could be useful. They could - for example - make this capture Necro actually good at capturing. For instance, the idea about health siphoning from enemies doesn't really fit with Necro (like you said) but it could be tweaked to fit in better. It could be an ability unique to the zombie form, after all zombies eat humans. So it would make sense that damaging someone in the zombie form would regen some life. That could add sustain that would make Necro's zombie form more tanky, which you say it's supposed to be.

-> adds form with slowness and headshot immunity & 5-10 second cooldown between form shifts

Or you could just code mobs to follow you around like they used to?

When you put this much effort into discrediting suggestions it doesn't make me think that you actually want suggestions. That said, here's what I would change about your rework:

-remove cooldown between form shifts
-remove weakness 3 from Skeleton form
-add unique abilities to all 3 forms, some of which can revolve around capturing
-increase zombie resistance to resistance 4, decaying over 3 seconds to resistance 2
-add stone/iron sword
-add bow to skeleton form
-add 1-3 baby mobs that follow you around. different mobs for different forms

That's just some stuff I thought of off the top of my head. I think it would make your rework better, but that's just me

 

I would personally agree that i do dislike mobs as i have had numerous complaints from teammates saying 'Differentiating, please kill your mobs, they are getting in the way of my pyro arrows'. I only suggested bringing mobs back in to keep a bit of the old necro and to make it different to heavy.

However since it is focused on capping, zombie form is pretty useless given that it has slowness and the only significant good thing about it is that it is immune to headshots.

I also have a question. If you happen to get knocked off a cliff and about to fall into water and you are currently in blaze form, you could just switch to another form to avoid taking damage. And if you are in zombie or skeleton form and someone knocks you into lava, then you could just change to blaze form. Can that happen?

I would suggest giving a delay between switching hotbar slots and actually changing class to prevent that from happening. The delay would only be 2-3 seconds.

Also if you do switch to zombie form while having the flag, since you have slowness an assassin can easily assassinate you even though you have immunity to archer headshots.

I would suggest that headshots deal half a heart of damage [amount can be changed] to the necro. On the archer maps [beaver creek] the necro can pretty much easily go across the battlefield to the flag.

Please look at my suggestions though you do not have to include any of them.

 

I particularly enjoy this rework though it may lead to problems afterwards, the detail in this is more sophisticated then our current useless necro, but your rework actually gives necro mains like StormNox, Impeaceful and myself a chance to necro cap. I do have a few dislikes about this rework but i don't really care as long as it is better then our current necro. Just try not to make it too complex for people who started necro to understand.

 

I cannot really make a judgement on the dislikes on the class since i have not yet seen the class in action. However a main concern might be [as mentioned earlier] pyro frenzy. Medics are still affected by frenzy and so blaze form necro will be affected as well. That is a significant problem that necro may encounter later on.

Another concern is zombie form's dwarfness. If the necro happens to encounter a mage, elf, archer and etc, it has to switch from zombie form to another form to avoid dying because it cannot sprint. Therefore the necro will probably use skeleton and blaze form more since half of the ctf classes have a ranged attack.

Have to go watch anime, bye

 

So I definitely love the idea. I'm not gonna say too much bc most people have said it already, but skeleton and blaze could use some more stuff.

I know someone said it already, but adding a bow with power 1-3 (depending on the numbers) wouldn't be a terrible idea, it could be considered another counter to archer. I am also not against the idea of BOTH zombie and skeleton form being immune or taking less damage from an archer headshot.

Blaze is a bit more difficult to make balanced. The concept of "being a blaze" is cool, but so far any ability ideas that have been thrown around seem really underpowered or insignificant. It might actually do better to change it to a different mob i.e. cave spider or ghast or some ****. Cave spiders can deal poison, climb walls, etc, and would be a pretty good final ability. Ghasts have explosives and fire damage, float around, whatever. I just don't think Blaze is a good fit for something that will take lots and lots of damage in a game like CTF, especially if it's only doing fire related damage.

I mean hell, you could even make it pigman, where you get a sword and click and egg or some **** where a mob of pigmen spawns in and starts attacking whoever you are attacking/being attacked by. Retains some nostalgia

But ya, what I'm saying is necro has a lot of potential for some really cool stuff, so don't just hold it back by trying to stick with the 3 "main" ones.

 

To be honest the idea that necro can change abilities, buffs etc is amazing, as the current necro is useless and not used in matches or in general at all (really), this would be way how to change necro.

I also agree with brandino that a spider idea sounds great. Personally I think that blaze doesn't suit zombie and skeleton abilities, and a spider would suit this rework better. Fast mobility/poison damage perhaps?

I really do hope the idea that you can change mob gets applied to CTF. I *might* even change off my dominant elf main, to use it/perhaps main in it.

 

Love it.. being able to see invis ninjas will help with offending and defending ninja caps.
Spider looks great, personally I would like the spider to deal poison I for 5 seconds (for annoyance) and more of a spider feel, but thats just me I guess. If this gets added it will deffo be my new main, being able to switch between the different mobs I think will be great.

 

Question:

Since skeletons can see ninjas, does that mean the skeleton can attack it?
Is spider an undead mob?
For dwarf, you cannot 'eat steak', does that already apply to zombie form as well? [it would be implemented, i am just reminding you to include it].

Also, since zombies cannot sprint, people would switch to skeleton form first and then zombie form to cover more distance on the maps that have an underground base since they cannot get headshotted.




I said ranged attack, does not only include attacks that deal damage [eggspam, webspam, potspam].

 

3- You can't 'eat' steak as dwarf [i meant restoring the hunger bar instead of healing health].

Also, problem with keen eye for skeleton form. You can see invisible ninjas but they are still quite hard to see. I feel as if this ability might be misused however what i like about this ability is that it stops annoying ninja caps 90% of the time.

I feel like climbing an infinite amount of blocks is too much for spider form. I would suggest limiting the maximum climbing distance to like 20 blocks or when the necro reaches to. However jump boost 3 may be misused as well, maybe jump boost 2 instead of 3??

Since spider form has no actually buffs to pvp [and has a debuff], i would suggest giving slowness 1 to any player the necro attacks [reason- spiders poison the enemy and give it slowness]. If you want to change it, feel free to do so. I understand that spider form is not meant for pvp but any necro must encounter at least an enemy on its way to the flag [unless the necro is the only player on]. The necro cannot just jump over the player attacking him/her, he/her has to retaliate. This is why i proposed giving slowness.

 

I meant misused as in 'change classes to kill it' type, not the 'warn teammates about it' type, its quite hard to explain unfortunately.

Can you please clarify the speed of climbing for spider form and what happens if you switch classes [accidently] while climbing.

I proposed slowness for spider form and not poison because giving poison for every hit would be very annoying to the receiving player. While slowness is not that much of a deal, the recieving player cannot hit as far, therefore spider gains a little advantage in pvp. Whereas poison would be quite fatal towards the players with 10 fps that cannot handle the poison particles, for example.