Idea My idea

I have over 40k mobs spawned with Necro. Dose that count?

 

Archer has plenty of insta-kill capability, it's still a difficult and balanced class. Dwarf, as mentioned by some others, is very powerful and OP when guarding a flag--and by the way, its counter-class is Assassin, so no point in removing one without the other.

I know I'm kind of mixing up arguments here, but now I'll first defend Assassin, then Pyro. Perhaps it's not the best idea to have a class that's surely going to die, that's granted. But last I checked, there are some darn good Assassins who have a neat little trick of killing quickly and staying alive. And I highly doubt Assassin was meant to be an offensive class; its forte lies in taking out flag-guarding dwarves, and recovering flags quickly after they're stolen.

I suppose how I take your opinion on Pyro depends on whether you normally play the class or not; ignorance would make my argument that much more valid. Last I checked, it's freaking annoying how long it takes to arm an exploding arrow, which doesn't even explode 25% of the time! (Not totally true, just bugs me when it fails.) And also the last the last time I checked, I'm pretty sure you have more options than to charge a Pyro while you're on fire.

Edit: As you can see, I like to use the phrase "last I checked".

 

Assassin. Archer. Heavy Buffed. Chemist. Medic Team if need be. Choose one. Come back to me when you still cannot take out the dwarf.

Number of caps don't mean anything rofl. For all I could care for you could have farmed 3000 of those 4000 caps, and someone who could have just recently joined who only has 200 caps can be better than someone on the TL with regards to capping, and they don't show experience either, they just show what type of player you are, so your argument is invalid.

 

Well, archer has different problems. For one thing, it's the one insta-kill that practically can't be stopped (well, now we have Elf, but...). I'm not going to get into that doe.

Well, Dwarf is OP, as you said, so it would also need a rework. As in assassin. So yes, both classes would need to be reworked, you're right.

I dun know if you know this, but I am one of those "good assassins." I've been playing assassin for quite a while now, and main it in team matches and stuff. The point being: I know assassin. The problem with it is that it's either too strong, or really bad, there is no middle ground. This lies in it's core concept, which is the redstone with blocking. If they block you, well, gg, but if you kill them, well gg. There is no middle ground, which makes every assassin encounter pretty much go one of those 2 ways. Not a good design to have in a class.

I've played pyro a bit yah. How is it annoying? It's only the time it takes you to draw a bow back fully (1.5 seconds I think). In addition, it explodes 100% of the time if you draw it back all the way, so yur not doing that. Also, you have flint and steel, so you dun even need the bow sometimes. If you don't have time to draw your bow back, use that. In addition, what are your other options? Run away? I mean, if you're trying to get the flag, and a pyro is there, your only option should not be to run away. That's stupid, no class should create that kind of wall by itself.

You do realize you named 2 insta-kills, something OP, something else OP, and again, something else OP. The fact that you need one of these to take out a dwarf is broken as heck.

 

Okay granted I'm being a little hypocritical since I almost never play assassin. I just personally think it's more of a go-get-'em utility class, and I guess I'm different in being okay with that.

I know what pyro is like, I play it all the time. I was exaggerating with the chance of it not exploding; I mainly mean when a ninja just appeared at the flag and you don't have your arrow loaded, they're gone by the time you get a shot off. I would also say I'm rather skilled in using the flint-n-steel without spamming it. And it's not really an unstoppable wall when it's guarding the flag; medics are of course the counter-class, assassins have a good chance of taking them out, ninjas are quite effective, and mages are unbeatable if they stay about eight blocks away, not to mention them using ice and lightning. (A bit off-topic, but when it comes down to it, I honesty think Mage shouldn't change much; it seems to put a little humility into other classes.)

Also, I meant to include this in my first post: what can also be done to Pyro is decreasing the blast radius of exploding arrows (which I'm pretty sure has already been done once), and maybe decreasing the number of arrows to 15 or 10. (edit: ) Or... as much as I hate to admit it, they could make it so "insta-kill" takes two or three hits, instead of one.

When it comes down to it, I don't want classes to be so liberally balanced that everyone can kill each other with equal chances of winning. People go to KitPvP servers for that kind of balance. Some classes are better than others for certain purposes (i.e. soldier is much better for caps, while heavy is better for kills), and each class takes at least some skill to get deadly with. I like that principle how it is.

 

How in the fawk is assassin utility? All it does is kill one opponent, and does so with a terrible mechanic.

Well, if a ninja appears and you dun have your arrow loaded, that's your fault to begin with. Also, yah flint and steel. Or, use your axe, it kills ninja in laike, 4 hits. Allright, not unstopabble, just really freakin strong. Medics do counter them, but assassins can't cap for crap, and ninjas dun work all the time, especially when the pyro is camping. Mages can't cap for crap as well.

tbh, a rework where pyro deals true damage would be ideal.

And why is that? Is there something wrong with balance? Classes should have a fair chance of killing each other, except some are better at different things. For example, ninja should not have armor, to counteract it's damage. I think your definition of balance is slightly skewed. In an ideal world, skill would make most of the difference, not whether you are this class or that. A heavy should be able to cap off a pyro just as a medic can.

Also, some classes take no skill to be deadly with, mainly insta-kills. Pyro, just light them on fire, hit them once, dead. Archer, spam arrows in a crowded area. Assassin, right click, left click, dead.

 

Welp. Guess I forgot to mention ninja, and don't say that it's hard to do it as ninja, if you are good at it you can accomplish anything with it, and it's not op.

 

Please keep this thread on-topic. Thanks.

 

nice on-topic

 

Allri

Allright, so a ninja can do it. So what? That's one option, but the others are all broken concepts in the game. Dwarf has problems, it may not be able to cap, but it can defend too well. Either it snowballs and get's incredibly good, or it does nothing. That's why snowballing is a bad concept in CTF, we need classes like, well, the rest, that you go out and use their abilities to do stuff, not that just sit there and wait to do something, or do nothing and are bad.

 

I'll agree that dwarf has many issues that should be fixed, but as far as the gameplay goes, it's not really hard to counter even if it requires OP classes to do so. The reason why people keep playing ctf is even though some classes are more OP than others, they can still counter them in some way just like TF2 which is why the funness never dies in the game.

 

Surprised you let it go that ninja is a counter to dwarf lmao

As you have probably seen from some posts, some ctfers are rather rude, sorry bout that :C

 

I didn't want to argue that point xddd Because that's more opinion and stuff.

 

Apologies, I suppose I misused the word "utility". I mentioned my longer definition for it before, though: a go-get-'em, quick-kill class, useful for recoveries or taking out dwarves. If you don't want that to happen to you, then get runnin'. You do have the flag, after all.

Our opinions on balance seem to differ greatly. I support the idea of counteracting abilities, while you, at least from what I'm getting, seem to support counteracting weaknesses. Like, in your example, how ninjas deal good damage but have no protection against getting hit (unless you count a wimpy sword to block with).

I know this isn't totally about archer, but I'd like to make the point that it's a well-balanced class in my opinion. Most classes can kill an archer with not too much skill, and it's not like it's impossible not to get shot by a few archers. If there's a crowd that people are shooting into, go around it! Most maps have more than one way to get across the map.

Either I'm badly missing something here, or you meant assassin, not ninja. Heh... killing dwarves with ninja isn't the greatest idea.

 

So pyro(the most OP class) and assassin(another OP class) should be changed while mage(the most balanced class) should be needed? K

 

Well, you know, that's what assassin is supposed to do, single target damage. And you can't really run from an assassin forever, maps have a limit you know. Running is not a fawkin counter.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Balance is where each class has a fighting chance to beat the other. Each class has different roles, and each class does their role more effectively then others, but not to the extent that we have now.

Right, but once again, running is not a counter. The fact that one archer can shut down an entire area proves that the class is broken. An archer can also kill every class with not much skill, so idk wat yur point is.


You took Risa's quote way out of context, he was asking why I didn't argue with Luca that ninja is a dwarf counter. He doesn't think ninja is a dwarf counter.

 

The map can change, whether dwarf or pyro is OP. And CTF ist a game with teams. That means it is usual to kill people together or one medic deflects the pyro and a ninja will cap.

 

What D:

 

@NomNuggetNom CTF didn't have a coder because there weren't enough. All the coders were working on different stuff. By "we" I meant CTF.

 

Call me a pay-to-win noob (seriously, do it if you want to), but I find more entertainment in the classes that have faster kills. As a matter of fact, I'm tired of debating. What Brawl does, Brawl does. But according to logical people with similar thinking to yours, most of CTF classes will need to be reformed if the game is to be "balanced". I really found nothing wrong with how the game already was, regardless of who killed me too easily or vice versa.

I suppose I did.