Idea Instakills, in Their Current State, Are Overpowered/Unbalanced, Unfair, and Stupid

https://www.brawl.com/threads/40924/

 

@ContagiousBubble I don't know if it helps, but the earlier poll did suggest that a good 3/4s of the community did want balanced instakills rather than a ctf balanced with instakills removed.

Personally I have no problem with the instakill classes being fixed so that it's more balanced than it is now, whilst keeping the instakill mechanic. Whilst to different extents, I have to agree that they are overpowered and need to be fixed in order to balance that out. The reworks suggested at the start of this thread are unsuitable for a number of reasons which I won't delve into right now, but regardless it would be good to see a proper rework which would make the classes more balanced. However, in the case of archer, it's more difficult than the other two as to how this mechanic should be balanced out

 

Well yeah, but most of the time if you dun see it coming it's not a mistake. You can't exactly see an assassin behind you without f5, and you sure can't see an archer arrow coming from anywhere except in front of you. In addition, reworks would keep the same role and effectiveness of the current insta-kills, it just would be harder and take more skill. Also, it taking a long time to recover depends on the skill of the capper and recoverer, not on what class is used. Ninja is one of the best recoverers, and it's a non-instakill class.


I think Web's point here is more that they are too effective in their roles. He used pyros always being on defense as an example, because it shows that they are so effective they are a must-have. You will not see a team match without a pyro on defense. The insta-kills as they stand are almost unmatched in their respective roles. Pyro is hands-down the best defensive classes due to it's insta-kill that reks everything except for medic and other pyros. Archer is the only long range class, and is very good at it's job. Assassin is extremely good at killing a single target, but assassin is slightly messed up in that it could be really bad too depending on the skill of both players, and blocking (imo assassin needs a rework no matter which way we go).


Also, I don't see your point when you argued that people would play tanky classes to counter true damage. The thing about true damage is that it goes through armor, so tanky classes would be pretty useless. The gameplay would go faster because people aren't dying as fast due to insta-kill, leading to more people getting out. Of course, this would depend entirely on the skill of the player.


As too the pace of the game yur right, the individual rhythm with insta-kills is faster, however, just because we rework them doesn't mean that that rhythm will be drastically slower. For me ninja is the most fast-paced class because of the sheer number of things you have to do to survive. You have to use redstone, eggs, and your sword all in quick succession to kill an opponent. By reworking insta-kills to classes with have multiple abilities, this individual rhythm would speed up. not slow down. For instance, assassin is extremely slow, with only one button pressed for it's ability. The fight may be shorter, but the interaction is less. However, with a rework like the one I made (https://www.brawl.com/threads/41062/), there would be more interaction, making the fast paced "feeling" you have speed up.

 

You didn't actually answer his question Duke, that thread doesn't actually say anything about it.

 

@ContagiousBubble if a poll were to be made it should directly ask the community "do you approve or disapprove of instant kills in CTF?"
@dukeisawesome12 Referencing that poll does not answer the question of whether or not people support instant kills.
The question in the poll was poorly phrased because it basically asked everyone "hey would you prefer it if CTF could be balanced with Instant kills and everything doesn't get changed?" and naturally 3/4ths of the community said hell yes! The question never asked "do you support or not support instant kills". After all instant kills wouldn't be a problem in a balanced CTF! If you could balance CTF with instant kills, why remove them in the first place.

So getting instant killed is the fault of the person getting instant killed? That sounds like the same logic a spokesperson for the NRA used when they blamed the recent Charleston shooting on the black churchgoers because they weren't carrying guns when the shooter attacked them.
It's not someone's 'mistake' if they walk outside of spawn and immediately get head-shot. It's not someone's mistake if they were the victim of lag and got instant killed by an assassin. It's the fault of the stupid mechanics of the game that allows instant kills in the first place.
One of the main reasons instant kills exist is because of soldier's ridiculous mobility and how hard it would be to recover without instant kills against a soldier who's flying and going ape**** all over the map. Nerf soldier's mobility instant kills aren't really 'nessecary' in recovery. Another counter to your point is that Chemists and Ninjas are good at recovery and they are not an instant kill classes.
Maps aren't the problem although some flag rooms are poorly designed.

There's nothing wrong with classes being used for the roles they were designed for. The problem is they use instant kills in those roles and that causes imbalance in the game and removes teamwork. Imbalance is caused in the case of Pyro because its far too strong as a class and far too good at what it does for example.

That's true that instant kills do make fights faster. However removing the instant kills wouldn't make the game slow enough for your grandpa to play let alone boring. Frankly I'd enjoy a CTF where combat is more based on skill rather than point and click assassination or buying the right class (Pyro) to get a ton of kills.

Other than that, @obikenobi21 nailed everything imo.

 

well when i say its a mistake i mean that actions could be made to avoid it but they were failed to be made, and i am pretty certain that all instakills are pretty much completely avoidable. Taking a long time to recover does depend on the skill of the capper/recoverer, but im pretty sure that no matter what anyone does to recover will not be faster than an instant kill.

im not sure how they're "too" effective, the way i see it they just do a job that no other classes are really fit to do but i guess this whole part is pretty much just a matter of opinion

ye sorri about that i didnt explain very well but by tanky im refering to the health pool as in how chemist has a fat ass regenerable health pool

ewps sorri D: i thought thats what he was asking about

well this is a videogame not real life politics so i dont think thats a particularly relevant comparison but all im saying is that instakills are completely avoidable and if u do its sorta because u fail to avoid them. and ye lag is ****ty but thats a problem of its own separate from this imo

i responded to something similar to this that obi said and this seems to me like its just a matter of ur opinion that they're "too good" at what they do. imo they do it just fine.

alright so thats it i think idk also sorri for l8 response ive been on vacation

 

Well, other classes can fill their role. Heavy can defend, elf can do long-range, and ninja can recover. It's just that these classes are some of the best in their roles. You will never see a defense in a team match without a pyro, and archers are becoming a staple of matches these days. Assassin, well, that really depends on the team, because it's either really good or really bad.

O, I get it, that kind of tankiness. Well, tbh, only 2 classes have that currently, medic and chemist. Medic has b4d armor, meaning physical damagers like ninja rek it, same with chemist. Also, chemist is OP with that healthpool, nerf pl0x.