Minecraft 1.9 CTF classes

Ehh, 7 secconds is a lot if your being rushed over and over every 3 secconds. Im not sure what you mean by sneaking into the flag room, that, has, never, worked, unless your playing with noobs or a Ninja. Be Le Pairo isent Ninja. Ninja can cap and def, but can it do eather of those as well as Le Pairo can DEF? No the rolls are split, Medic, dosent def, they support the DEF, they can cap. But should it be able too?

So your real def class, Dwarf.. Ok we have 1 DEF class then, with.. Mage, Le (new) Pairo, Soldier, Chemist, Ninja, Assassin, Medic, Archer, Elf, Heavy, and every other class. Little unfair? Stop using Dwarf as your ****toy defender. Even if Dwarf is a real defender, guess what.. SO IT LE PAIRO.




But the main reason why im arguing against this is because I fail to see a valid reason why you want to change Pyro like this in the first place.

 

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DWARF??? What? I'm sorry, that's really quite wrong. And I already told you why pyro needs to be on defense. And even a nerfed chemist can breeze past this puny pyro.

 

Heres the flaw in your logic, your arguing your whole change off of your opinion that some classes need to be changed, thats flawed. As if this was changed, then nothing else was, it woudent work.

If you make a rework, focus on the hear and now of classes, not the future.

But again, I still see no need to remake Le Pairo like this, and I would like too know your reason..

 

OH BABY.. If we had stats up and ready I would make you choke on those words.. But we dont, so I'll just tell you. Im not really sure, I may have like around 30k games played. Around 9k of those are with Necro, maybe 1500 games with Le Pairo. I am in no way defending it to have the cheap kills. Pyro is one of the reasons I die a lot.

A Medic, Ninja, Chemist, and Mage, could not kill a buffed Heavy. Now dont go saying eavy needs a nerf or im really going to flit ****.

No, we dont need to ignore them. But do you even know what they are? New shields, ok what dose that mean? A fireproof shield, or a shield made of candy? Even if you plan, you have no idea what there adding untill its done. Also if I read it right you new verson of Le Pairo adds no 1.9 things. So then why dose it need to be changed to this when 1.9 comes out.



So your reason for the change is because its OP, ok thats fare. Then give it a nerf not a rework, no need to go over board and change the whole class.

Welp, anyway. I got your reason, how ever bad or good it is. Im done here I said what I had to debating is going to go no where else. I'll wait till some other people see it and say what they have to say.

But FYI I am highly offended from that part that you said I like to play Le Pairo.

 

@TOM_SAYS : I appreciate your effort and having people think about the class balancing or inevitable changes (like MC 1.9) is just how a forum should be used. There is no need for you to feel offended or to justify your work in any way.
Still, I disagree with your rework. At the moment most classes fullfill a purpose in CTF and for the sake of strategic gameplay and teamwork that is needed. After all, that is the main reason why there are different classes.
Pyro always has been a key element for defense, since it is the only effective way (apart from high level dwarf, but who wants to play such a nerve-racking class every game just because the team needs a strong defense) to stop an attack of skilled soldiers, chemists, maybe even heavies. It already is sometimes hard enough to get sufficient people defending (instead of kill farming or capping). Especially the insta-kill of the pyro makes capping difficult (and therefore more based on strategy and teamwork and not one pro running in and escaping with the flag). To have to pick your capping class carefully, depending on enemies defense is an important element of CTF imo.
You said we could solve the problem by reworking all the other classes, nerfing chemist, soldier, dwarf, assassin, ...
But why reworking all the classes in the first place. I'm not saying that everything is perfectly balanced, but basically we have played this game (including some relatively minor nerfs, compared to your complete rework above) for years now as it is. And I hear enough complains how the game was more fun back in the old days (including the fact that many classes were more op back then, one could say: more intense, but thats a subjective matter).
If we want to balance classes, then lets keep the changes as minor as possible (imo)! There are many CTF-Games out there, but I just happend to love this one. Don't you agree?

 

Agreed. Pyro could use a rework or a nerf, but not on this scale.

 

Are you trying to make it even more impossible to cap?

 

How do you see it as OP? I see it as UP

 

o boi
1. CTF has enough offensive capping classes
2. Pyro is an important defensive class because of it's instakill and because it doesn't have slowness II. Its not an efficient move to make Pyro an offensive class and then have to change a couple other classes to fill in the pyro gap.
3. All the classes aren't gonna get 1.9 covergirl makeovers just because it's coming.
4. Your idea isn't Pyro its an entirely new class.
5. Please don't call other people "enemies" or "opponents", we're just regular people giving our opinions.
6. It's okay to have more than one defensive class.
7. Oh no! I used grammar error!
8. !!? Dwarf is rly strong and can be TP'd through engy teleporter to be offensive!? Make it become an offensive class!! Medic can be used for capping?? Give it speed II and super armor!!!! We don't want to waste any of this potential, eh????
9. Yes, Pyro is a defensive class. Period! Atleast for now it is. If we rework chemist, soldier and other capping classes that aren't easily killed by ninja (Since thats usually the strongest defender other than pyro) by weakening their capping powers then maybe Pyro can have a break on defense. Until those other classes are changed pyro stays in it's place on the balance web.
10. I don't think this idea will work in CTF right now :\

 

Or it just means that people see this differently? You don't call a politician and a kindergartener both idiots because they don't see the economy the same way.

Quote for that? And no, Nom saying that CTF is being updated to 1.9 does not mean "we're going to be reworking all the classes to make the game more balanced". Not changing a class in the transition isn't impossible.

Pyro is important defensive class because it's the only one effective at killing Soldiers and Chemists. I personally hate Pyro but I really don't think getting rid of the strongest Soldier/Chemist counter is the right thing to do.

Quote? I really doubt that they're going to put coding time into all the classes.

I think you're missing my point. This is way too different from the original Pyro. Them both having to do with fire does not make up for the fact that it's role and abilities are changed. You can't make Heavy a Speed II class with magical abilities and think that both classes are "totally!" related because they both have a piece of diamond equipment.

You can always clear things up for other people, but it's just a bit offensive when you get called an enemy because you disagree with something. We're not trying to destroy you we just don't like the idea.

Because Pyro is already an important defensive class and moving the Pyro gear around the CTF clock makes it break. We don't want to recode other classes to repair the tear in the balance.

"I see a cheap thug that plays with firework and then chops people their heads of."
"Which is exactly the part I think is very hypocrite"
"Yes it will, and definetly when we have more information"
yea, whatever

You're missing my point again. I wasnt being serious about that.
I don't think that since a class has potential to fill another role it should be reworked to squeeze into it.

They aren't going to change several classes just because you think that Pyro should be offensive.

Every class is compatible with 1.9..
And again, quote for every class getting a gameplay rework.

Are you trying to say that Pyro should be less defense oriented so that other players will begin to defend more often?

 

Or we could just not change the classes at all except the adittion of shields to classes that have swords so you can still block assassins...

 

So as it turns out, I read the post incorrectly the first time. Whoops. Feel free to ignore my previous statements. Anyway, I figure I'll fully review this class now.

Now, unless I'm horribly mistaken, there isn't true damage in this class. There's a good reason most non-instakill pyro reworks have true damage as a factor - it's pyro's job to counter chemist, soldier and heavy easily, by bypassing their high armour or health pool (either by instakill, or armour-ignoring damage). Chemist is kind of hard to counter using only the true damage, since it doesn't have great armour and a high health pool to compensate, which is why I have an advocate for health regeneration blocking or reduced potion effectiveness as a passive for pyro fire. To me, those are the guidelines for a good pyro rework, and other abilities can be mixed in.

It should be noted that while true damage is a good compensation for an instakill ability at taking out high-armoured opponents, the base damage needs to be pretty high so it's effective. I'd say 3 hits maximum to deal 10 hearts of damage. This brings me to my first criticism about the rework: there is no way to deal high damage to most classes, let alone the ones the class is supposed to counter.

I'm sure you'll agree that heavy should be the predominant hard counter of pyro, in that a pyro should beat a heavy more often than any other class. Looking at your rework, pyro does hardly any damage whatsoever to a heavy.

>0.2 x 8.75 = 1.75 = 0.875 hearts per hit. ​

I don't think I need to state anything more on this argument. The damage output is absolutely dismal and the additional armour does nothing to make up for it.

My second criticism is that the fireblast cooldown is far too long for it to be effective, and encourages sitting around corners to avoid being extremely vulnerable. This either promotes boring gameplay, or, more likely, this ability is next to useless. It's already been said that 7 seconds is too long a cooldown in a fast-paced game like CTF and I'm in complete agreement. I personally think it would be much better if there were, say, a 3-5 second charge up time, and the charge up would increase the damage dealt, instead of having the ability only active on the full charge up. And I don't think you mentioned how much damage this attack deals, or how large the radius is.

Blazing speed brings me to my third point - it's completely useless. Speed 1 isn't a huge speed improvement over normal running speed, and jump boost 1 allows you to jump up 1.5 blocks, which really isn't useful at all. Considering the fact that you lose health, and you still get the annoying slowdown every burn tick (which further reduces the speed's effectiveness), I wouldn't consider this ability worth using at all, much like fireblast.

I quite like the first half of the flame shield, and I wouldn't mind pyros taking something like 6-9 hearts damage from water elements, though I really have to disagree with the part about chemist. You're already making chemist an almost certain win against its intended counter class, why make it even stronger with this? And again, you haven't specified exactly how much extra damage is dealt from the potions.

You have some creative ideas with this class, but mechanically, in terms of other classes and the respective counters, this would ruin the class counters in place, and make soldier, heavy and chemist incredibly overpowered.

If this is implemented I'm committing sudoku.

 

Yes we can, each class should fit a purpose. That's just the thing people dislike about chemist: It can do anything too good.

sry, but that's exaggerating.

ty, lol XD

If there is defense, it is not cheap at all. And without defense, well, gg.
By the way, pyro is one of the best counters against insta-caps because of its insta-kill. One decent pyro can make ghosting at least very difficult. Remove pyro's insta-kill, well, that would make it much easier.

Who to represent a game if not the people, who play it?

I agree.

Keep the discussion polite and rational please. It is quite annoying to read through some of this.