The Nature of Capture the Flag

I'd agree with this, both play an important role. It is true what @Plautius talked about when he said that if a ninja caps it's a better quality because at the end of the day it's the caps that matter. However, if they aren't just randomkilling and instead going after the people that are playing objectively than just randomly killing, then it could be considered a better quality from the killers. If they can prevent the opposition from capturing by killing than that inevitably is a better quality. It's important to have a good map balance so that both can be achieved. Without killing you can't prevent a capture, and without a capture you can't win the game, the two are inevitably linked. The difference is of course whether or not you'd consider the killing to be objective or not, and this is the main grey (or gray if you're american) area of ctf: whether there is too much focus on this random, non-objective killing or not.

One of the reasons why objective killing is important in a game of course. Map control can be very important. And if you can dominate the majority of a map, if you get into the area you dominate in, it can be very difficult for the enemy to recover the stolen flag.

This is an interesting situation because in theory if a player is playing objectively and catches the ninja with the flag, there's a very good chance they'll be able to recover because the ninja has no armor to defend itself. Ninja is a class clearly built for capping, but there should be classes built with that in mind, just as there are classes built with killing in mind, such as archer. I think the question here lies not with how it's built, but is it built too well with that way in mind. Dwarf is clearly built for defense, and can't really perform any other role. It is still incredibly overpowered in that role and needs fixing. I think to a certain extent every single ctf class needs some kind of fix to balance the problems out somewhat, but obviously that's down to the individual perspective.

Like I was saying, in this case the perspective is that ninja is too good at it's role, but I'm sure there are people whom would disagree with you on the matter. It would be interesting to get a general consensus on relative power for every ctf class, so we can get a general idea of which way to go with a rework of them.

I Don't actually think this is necessarily true. With that map dominance, those classes willing to camp might not actually get to the flagroom, being killed by those classes along the way. Let's not also forget ninjas also play offensive killing roles as well in certain situations. There are also more classes that cap, like soldiers who can evade with the wall climb, and medics who can avoid a defensive pyro. All of these could be killed potentially before reaching the flagroom. With that in mind, I don't really see this "heavy reliance"

Different people like different things I guess. Any engineer or necro clearly likes camping because of the nature of the class. Core defense can be boring, which is why you see a lot of people telling you to defend: people get bored and decide to roam, leaving it open. But then I'm sure there are some flagcampers again who find it fun

 

You had time to sit down, read every single massive post in this thread and write a 1347 word post to it but you couldn't read even a little bit of my CTF rework that I spent 3 years of my precious life creating?

Hmph. I see how this is pookey!

 

I'll get to it sometime...... c: