CTF Tweak Update

I know what ninja capping is, you don't to explain it to me. My point is, it wasn't something I wanted to put in this update for multiple reasons. Doesn't mean I don't hate it or it deserves a change, but not for this update. It needs to be its own thing.

 

A very effective way to stop ghost capping is an elf using their wind element every once in awhile directly at the flag. It detects and shows any invisible ninjas that are there and pushes them away. But due to the wind element's buginess it will sometimes suck the ninja into the armorstand and make them untouchable by anything except chemist / pyro. uuuuuugh when that happens.

 

you just explained why its not effective.

 

It stops ghosting 90% of the time. It rarely ever doesn't work except if a teammate blocks the wind arrow, the elf is just distracted, or the bug i just explained.

 

I dont know about you. . . but I dont find spamming the flag with wind arrows for the whole game to stop something cheap fun.

 

not saying it's fun just effective. ninja does need a nerf to it's capping capability though.

 

The first time I read this thread I thought it said 'The CTF Twerk Update'

Seriously.

 

Another way to counter ghost capping is throwing a potion pot at the flag every once in a while. It doesn't do much damage, but if you or anybody around that area that's on your team starts taking the potion damage, then there's probably a ninja around there. Or if not, you can just spam arrows with pyro .

 

Nbd right?

 

>tfw you actually have to coordinate with your team instead of just skillfully dropping one long lasting potion and forgetting about it

>oh nOOOOoOO the supposed dedicated support does less damage


Right, even as someone who hated Pyro with a passion, I think 3.5 seconds might be a little extreme. But I'm willing to see how it plays out.

 

How is soldier's wall climb even comparable to ghost capping. A soldier has to get past pyros/assassins/almost every other class, grab the flag, and make it all the way back to their flag. And before it does all that, the soldier has to actually made it's way to the flagroom. A ninja has to avoid being hit for about 2 seconds, which isn't that hard with 10 eggs. Then it pearls back home in the next 10-20 seconds, meaning that only a ninja expecting ghost capping can catch up to it. As someone who frequently ghost caps, I can say that it's really easy to kill that recoving ninja and make it back. I'm not saying soldier caps are hard to do, but comparing them to ghost caps is insulting.

 

@Evan19119 I was comparing it as a way to cap, not really comparing skill, execution or usefulness. Just, a way of capping.

 

To be honest, removing ghosting like that is like removing a route on a map xdd a very short, OP route. Like there are other routes to take, but this one is just more OP and easier to do.

 

Guys pls I never said I was against removing it, my literal only point was not in this update, it still needs discussion first. Stop assuming it means 10,000 other things when that's legit the only reason.

 

My opinions on the tweaks in order:

Archer
- Bow is now Punch I instead of Punch II

Great change, should promote healthier gameplay and is something that has been long awaited.

Chemist
- 12 damage pots instead of 20
- 8 poison pots instead of 10
- Slowness potions are now weakness potions
- Fire resistance potions now last for only 30 seconds instead of 2 mins

Persoanlly after the mana and healthpool changes I thought chemist was in a pretty good spot, actually weak if anything. Damage and poison pot reduction as well as slowness being changed to weakness I'm fine with, however the change to fire res doesn't make sense to me. I'd assume it's aimed at making chemist more support, however the decreased duration makes it function as an offensive class and not a supportive one due to having to stay right next to the offense at all stages of the trip to and from the enemy flag. As far as defense goes, I think the change is just annoying and there's really no need for it.

Dwarf
- Immunities to poison/fire now kick it at level 10
- Capped at level 10

Great tweak for the time being, however even after the tweak I believe dwarf will still need an overhaul.

Elf
- 16 arrows instead of 10
- Earth Element takes 2 arrows
- Protection 2 chestplate and boots instead of protection 1

Big fan of the elf changes, and I can see them promoting healthier gameplay.

Engineer
- Turret now has 15 health instead of 20

Good tweak in my opinion, just keep changing around small stuff with engineer until everyone is as content as possible.

Medic
- Webs can now be broken by enemies at normal block speed
- Removed sharpness

Great focus at changing medic back to a more supportive style as well as removing an annoying element of its gameplay.

Necro
- Added knockback to the pickaxe
- Changed fence to regular fencepost

Knockback I agree with a lot, it promotes a non-camping style of gameplay. The fence however is a very bad idea. Not only was it initially removed and replaced with the netherbrick fence when it was first added ~2ish years ago because pyro could practically insta counter necro's entire kit, it also allows for players to easily break it 2 vs 1 against the necro with the mob ai being so buggy. The counterargument to this would be to have 2 players defensing the spawner to counter 2 breaking it, but honestly with necro in its current state it would be a waste of time to have someone other than the necro defending the spawner aside from 1 or 2 maps.

Pyro
- Fire from arrows lasts for 3.5 seconds instead of 8
- Axe now needs to be double right clicked to activate frenzy
- 25 arrows instead of 20

Really good quality of life update honestly. Removes the annoying elements of pyro's gameplay while still keeping it as an effective defensive tool.


Overall I love the fact that classes are being tweaked instead of undergoing massive changes. It allows a lot more room for community feedback, and it offers a good chance to really gauge what is good for gameplay.

Quick edit since I saw ghosting was a discussion further up on the thread:
Ghosting in general is easy to defend against and isn't that big of a problem, there are certain classes that just make a ninja capper's life hell. I probably seem very biased being a ninja main and all, but I've put in tons of hours on both sides of the issue (capping or defending) and in my opinion if you let someone ninja cap on you it was preventable and it's the defenses fault for letting it happen. I say this excluding blackout and skyworlds where ninja capping actually is a bit too easy, however the routes are very predictable and easy to stop further in the cap rather than at the steal.

 

Yes, because ninja is the most pressing matter out of all the class updates.

 

Abt the restriction signs, do they restrict infinitly in the air?

 

Chemist and Dwarf seem to have been most nerfed (for chemist that's a good thing, dwarf... Meh)

 

Okay I'm way late to this discussion as I haven't been on Brawl for a while but here are my thoughts:

>Archer
>- Bow is now Punch I instead of Punch II
Archer has bigger issues that need to be addressed, but whatever.

>Chemist
>- 12 damage pots instead of 20
>- 8 poison pots instead of 10
I think these are pretty unecessary, especially since Chemist already has a big limit on damage pot throws. I can live with it though, since Medics can pretty easily replenish these
>- Slowness potions are now weakness potions
Fair. I kinda wanted a support potion that would slow enemies but this is fine too
>- Fire resistance potions now last for only 30 seconds instead of 2 mins
I'm pretty neutral on this one. I agree with lowering the duration of Fire Resist pots, as they're just a "throw and forget" kind of item, but I think this should be applied to pretty much all of Chemist's buff potions. This should also be offset by giving Chemist more of each buff potion. This means players have to stay close to Chemist in order to maintain their buffs, but the Chemist can also more freely give out buffs without worrying about their buff supply

>Dwarf
>- Immunities to poison/fire now kick it at level 10
>- Capped at level 10
This doesn't change the fact that Dwarf relies on a level system, which is unfun for pretty much all players but the Dwarf. Dwarf needs a rework that just gives it a simpler kit. No level up shenanigans, just a class focused around flag defense.

>Elf
>- 16 arrows instead of 10
>- Earth Element takes 2 arrows
>- Protection 2 chestplate and boots instead of protection 1
It's a nice buff, but it doesn't change the fact that landing consecutive arrows is way too difficult for its reward compared to much easier, more effective classes. I think Elf should get more support abilities so people don't have to rely on the Pure Element as much to do anything.

Engineer
- Turret now has 15 health instead of 20
Probably should be lower, as Engineers can basically spam these things when their first ones break. Not bad thouigh.

Medic
- Webs can now be broken by enemies at normal block speed
- Removed sharpness
No complaints

>Necro
>- Added knockback to the pickaxe
>- Changed fence to regular fencepost
We're gonna have to have a serious rework for Necro eventually.

>Pyro
>- Fire from arrows lasts for 3.5 seconds instead of 8
>- Axe now needs to be double right clicked to activate frenzy
>- 25 arrows instead of 20
I like this, but it's annoying how Pyro still doesn't have a sword. They can't insta-kill anymore, so it doesn't make sense that they have no defense against Assassins.

Also weird how Soldier got no changes. The exp bar system has done basically nothing besides stopping dumb Soldiers who climb to the top of a map and stay where no one can reach them. It doesn't change the fact that Soldiers can basically right-click and jump really high for free. It's annoying for people trying to catch the Soldier and kill them.

 

Awesome job, nom, U da best. I'm glad the blacklist got added, it makes me feel like I may have helped with CTF after all