Idea Non-Instakill Archer Proposal

gonna throw an idea out here. tell me what you think

remove archer instakill
replace with true damage bleed

how bleed works:
-bleed stacks based on how many fully charged shots you hit under 30 blocks
-can get up to 5 stacks of bleed
-each stack of bleed (default, you have 1) deals 2 hearts (+25% attack damage) true damage to enemies
-bleed applies when Archer lands a shot at 30+ blocks (aka a headshot)
-each additional stack of bleed deals an additional +25% attack damage as true damage(edited)
-max bleed = 2 hearts (+125% attack damage) true damage to enemies
-attack damage is based on Archer's sword
-stone sword, deals 2.5 hearts damage per attack. 25% of that is approximately 0.625 or 1/2 heart damage (rounded down)

-max bleed, in other words, = 2+ 3.125 hearts true damage = 5.125 or 5 hearts true damage
-archer headshots do 7.5 hearts true damage without bleed
-max damage w/5 stacks of bleed = 12.5 hearts true damage
-bleed ticks 1.5 hearts every second at 1-3 stacks, 2 hearts at 4-5
could also add a slow but that seems a little unnecessary

oh, almost forgot. remove the punch on the bow(edited) and decrease headshot range from 30 blocks to 25. lower reward for landing headshots so make it easier to do

thoughts?

 

League of Legends has dozens of champions with far more complex mechanics than this. It's one of the most popular video games in the world.

With proper presentation anyone can understand a true damage + scaling bleed concept. And yes, I'll admit I didn't present it in the most coherent way, mainly because I was tired and copied a lot of it from a thing I wrote on discord.

 

No duh

The CTF playerbase has aged quite a bit over the years. It's not drawing in too many new people and most of the oldies (who were 12-15 back in 2012-2013 or whatever) are now in their mid to late teens or twenties. I am one of them.

Yes it is. In fact, it's a lot more complex than what I'm suggesting.

Yes, Elf was not a well made class.

That is because Elf has no function. It just exists

Elf being complex and, coincidentally, worthless has nothing to do with this Archer rework.

I have been playing CTF for over five years Ivan. Why do you consistently feel the need to state the obvious?

Yes, and the sea is blue.

And it's a dumb idea. Simple, effective, totally unfair, and almost gamebreaking depending on who the Archer is, what map is being played (underground pathways became nessecary on some maps because Archer camping made aboveground crossing impossible), and how many Archers there are. That is why I have made numerous posts about the need to get rid of instant kills and just as many suggestions as to what they should be replaced with.

I'm not sure I do get your point, Ivan. I assume it's "well Elf is complicated as hell and complete trash - therefore since this Archer rework is somewhat complicated it must also be trash". Is that your point?

If it is I'd love to hear some rationale backing that up. Why? Because Elf being complex has nothing to do with it being trash.

The problem with Elf is that all of its abilities are weak, hard to use, and don't work to any particular goal (which you have mentioned) meaning that it ends up being bad at everything (except, arguably, flying away with the flag). You can't recover with Elf because of low damage output and inability to quickly burst down enemies - i.e. you have to land 2 consecutive shots with pure element to actually get some good damage off. You can't support with Elf because the only ability that's angled towards support is the water element and it has puny range and, if you do it hit, gives a max 8 second resistance I buff. That is 20% damage reduction for 8 seconds and its much harder to land than any of Chemist's splash potions - which do a lot more. And, ofc, you can't offend or defend with Elf because of low damage output, squishiness in melee, and garbage knockback from wind element (literally 3-5 blocks).

That's what happens when most people play Elf. Sure some dudes like Skarm or cliff can make mad plays with Elf and be virtually unkillable most of the time, but no one wants to put in the ridiculous amount of time needed to be able to do that.

The difference between Elf and this Archer rework is that you can actually do stuff with Archer without having to be too skilled at it. The bleed will, most of the time, get a kill for several reasons 1) bleed ticks for 1.5 hearts every second so in 2 seconds, if someone does not or cannot steak, they are dead. 2) if someone is not full health, they are dead, 3) headshot range is reduced 5 blocks so multiple headshots are easier to land, and 4) stacks aren't hard to farm.

It is true you won't get as many kills with this Archer, which is the whole point of it. Right now, Archer is way too successful at the expense of everyone else and that is a problem. This rework aims to fix that problem without destroying Archer (which is what removing & not replacing instakill, increasing headshot range to 40+ blocks, or replacing instakill with 'body specific' headshots would do). If you think that's what it does then maybe I didn't do a very good job with the rework. Maybe it still doesn't do enough damage to guarentee a kill, most of the time at least. If that's the case, that is an issue.

But the concept of a true damage bleed w/stacking bleed is not complicated. I agree I didn't present it in the easiest-to-understand manner, but just because I threw in some scaling doesn't make this "too complicated" for noobs to understand. Most people who play CTF are solving equations and maybe even finding the zeroes of a fifth root polynomial right now, in math class. If they can do that they can certainly figure out that shooting ppl at short range will make their long ranged shots do more damage (there could be some kind of icon for this, or an in chat - similar to what we have with medic/assassin - that says 'attention archers! shooting enemies at short range causes your long ranged shots to do more damage!').

Noobs are new players. Not idiots.

 

You weren't very clear.

That is nonsense. If players wanted to play Elf they would have taken the time out to figure out how to do it. They do not because Elf is a terrible class that isn't fun to play unless you've dedicated a ridiculous amount of time to mastering it

No it's not lol. The damage values themselves aren't obvious but the concept is not hard to understand. Bleed means you lose blood/health. Anyone who has cut themselves or is older than 4 knows that.

Why don't we remove medic healing then. Hitting someone with a sword to heal them probably isn't too clear to this hypothetical 11 year old either.

Let's also remove Soldier because right clicking on a wall/the ground is totally intuitive as is the actual function of the xp bar.

So you're saying that if we have any concept that approaches the realm of complexity, on a free class, CTF will die (or, at least, not grow any further)? Come on.

People play CTF, or any game, because it is fun to play. Yes, you can make things so complex that no one will be willing to take out the time to play them, and that will kill off a gamemode. However, adding a bleed with scaling damage to replace one of the most busted mechanics in the game is not one of those concepts. Ideally, this rework would leave Archer in a good enough state to where it is still fun to play

Also people don't need to know the exact damage values or how all that works. The only thing that the average player needs to know is that landing shots on enemies within 25 blocks will cause your 'headshots' to do more damage. As @Spades_ has said, the changes themselves don't matter as much as how aware players are of those changes (so they actually know what's going on). That would be easy to do and could be done through some in game announcements and on screen messages, which I have already mentioned above

Aside from the occasional complaint, these changes will not hurt CTF's playerbase and certainly won't kill it. Look at what happened with the Pyro rework or Medic sharp 1