Idea [ReadMe] Elf is still bad lul (also chemist jump boost?lul) & necro?Lul, +credit use?

Imo you are under estimate the current elf, a lot of people consider the vortex OP and I think when it is added to match server, some teams develop some strategy based off of this. However I do not play elf I only has seen it against me, so a elf player maybe has different opinion.

Using the elf shield requires the archer either wait to shoot or shoot and move around after they shot. Both of these are better than the archer is able to sit there and fire arrows (assuming nobody is target them.) For this reason, I don't think the shield is trash as the archer need to be prepare for the shield, but I would be open to a slight buff towards it. However once again I am not elf player, so all of this I has experience while play archer or seed it.

I has see chemists use jump boost to escape people, so I no think it is 'bad'. But I be open to test the increase of 1 level and see how it is.

 

> I really like your ideas to change the shield, I think either option would be good and also give the class more ability to support rather than cap(offense support bias sorry !).

> I would be open to seeing changes with this. As Hamza said, I don’t think it’s utterly useless, but I also think it could be better. So a minor buff like you suggested or changing it to something else possibly, could be good ideas.

As for everything else, I can’t say I really agree with your opinion on water element(keep in mind I don’t use elf, so I can be wrong with this one especially since it’s not really an element that grabs my attention when I’m watching a game).

As for vortex, I don’t have a solid opinion on it right now. I feel like when people are smart with it, it can be used pretty well which isn’t all too difficult. I do wanna see vortex used in matches because of its recovery potential, maybe then I’d have a solid opinion on it.

100% agree, here’s a waffle.

 

One thing I noticed with elf's water element is how you you get another 4 seconds of regen if you stay in the water aura until the first 4 seconds of regen finishes. If you move a bit, you don't get another 4 seconds of regen.

@redslime Is this intentional?

 

ALRIGHT ITS TIME

As it is now elf is a BAD support class (aside from vortex) but an ALRIGHT playmaker class. I see it like this, running a support elf on offense/defense should be as good as running a buffing chemist or a support medic in that in a 2v2 or 3v3 situation, the side with a support class should win, and support elf CANNOT do this. Of course you can go the way elf is currently going down, the playmaker route, where it caps, it fights, it kills, etc, but i will suggest what it should change if it were going down the support route.

Lets start with the first point, Water Element.
Never have i been in a situation where water elements regen and resistance MADE the difference between living and dying and there have been plenty of times where i have been not extinguished because it DOESNT extinguish in a sphere/cube.

Solution?
Buff the Regen and Resistance if you're gonna keep it only 12 seconds, u might as well increase both anyway because it never does anything.
Also make it extinguish in sphere/cube please im tired of getting hit upwards and getting insta-frenzied and not being able 2 extinguish an ally because the flag is on a step upward. (if ur gonna have the timer be 15 seconds, make it worth it)

Next point, Wind Element
Wind element is highly polarizing in the current meta, its stupidly overpowered and has NO counterplay options, u just get anchored in place and die, then the elf that shot u has 2 wait 2 seconds and anchors another person in 2 seconds, stupid.

Solution?
Instead of this complicated stuff, make it so when it shoots an area, it makes an aoe effect like water where allies get speed 1 or 2 for a few minutes, and enemies get slowness 2 or 3 for 5-10 seconds in the aoe (also deny soldier climbing in the aoe), allows fleeing allied flagholders 2 get away from recov, and allows allied recoverers 2 catch up to fleeing enemy flagholders. (of course large cooldown implemented)

finally Shield
Current shield is cool and all, but have u ever fought ninjas that egg u every 2 seconds and mages that just spam u while u sit down for a tea and shield?
Mobile/Lasting Shield would be great as it would make ninja and mage interactions MUCH more do-able and not a 1-sided kill.

Instead of activating from blocking and shielding, make it so u use your item drop key and it activates, and you press it again and it deactivates. This would allow you to pvp while shielding, cover allies, and make mage and ninja interactions alot more interesting.

Sidenote: Keep pure as it is, its ALOT easier to use right now and i don't think it need a buff/nerf. maybe if u want to put the deny soldier climbing somwhere put it here? make it so soldiers cant climb for a short while after being full draw pure'd? I dont know what to do with it.

 

yes

 

Ok so I've been playing a fair bit of elf since its rework and I'd like to give input on some of the thoughts posted here. I think the main point that many seem to miss is that elf's abilities should generally not be considered as separate from another, but rather as working in tandem. Individually, all of elf's elements are weak (and I think that's how they should be), but it is the versatility of the kit when all the elements are combined which gives elf its strength - for example, the pure shot will never be as high damage as archer headshot, the water element isn't as effective as a medic restore.

I definitely see elf as a support class, both on offence and defence. On offence, elf can extinguish a pyro frenzy, heavily delay the recov with wind, and block potential headshots from archer. On defence, elf can wind enemies to make them easy targets for heavies/ninjas/pyro/mage/archer, provide regen and resistance to the entire defence in an enclosed flagroom, and contribute with its own damage (especially on classes that aren't soldier). All of this comes with quite a high skill cap, which is why calling for changes at this point is incredibly premature imo - no-one has had near the time to master the class.

I think it's difficult to know how effective elf will be in competitive considering it hasn't been released, but I'm excited to see what teams try out and think it could shift the meta from PvP-oriented quite significantly.

Pure shot has become much easier to hit than pre-rework, chaining earth and pure was near impossible, whereas chaining wind>pure> pure is much easier.

As elves become better with judging strafe patterns I think the pure element accuracy will increase, but 35% isn't terrible considering the other benefits it brings to the table

It still requires a lot of skill, but I think it has changed drastically in terms of the situations it can be used in - the old water and wind were incredibly situational, and using sword often gave higher damage than pure. I think elf can cater to many more situations than before.

I'd agree with Ray here in that any buff should be to the strength of the effects as the cooldown gives it a higher skill ceiling. That said, I think this element has been intentionally watered-down (heh) due to vortex being quite strong, so I'd hope that this would be buffed if vortex does end up getting a nerf.

The old wind element was kinda gimmicky; the most common use I saw was people shooting it into spawn (aside from a few who used it to help pvp combos or knock people off the map). The new wind provides instantly more crowd control to delay enemies and enable your teams damage and your own. The vortex is way more effective than the pure element - it is area of effect, lasts longer, and easier to hit.

I disagree, elf shield is a very good counter to archer when used to protect teammates from being headshot (especially in stalemates where archer is one of the best recovery classes). It's only a bad counter if the elf is by themselves out in the open (which I don't see much reason for)

It should be used more Flag carriers die to headshots all the time.

Yeah I think it isn't worth using in combat for the elf, but the 20% reduction can help out a lot when used on a heavy or soldier who is being being attacked by ninjas and such.

The last thing I'd like to mention which Ray has already is that elf should probably counter soldier harder - it was originally introduced to counter soldier and hardly does anymore as earth has been removed and vortex doesn't prevent wallclimb.

TL;DR Elf is cool and fun and useful and I'm excited to see it in matches yay

 

#BuffNation

 

Elf vortex-
Honestly I would have to disagree, the ability to pull the flag carrier back is a huge advantage and is definitely going to be used once the tournament is over. Being pulled back and rooted is basically a death sentence for any flag carrier. Personally I hate it but would be an interesting addition to the game. Although elf has weak armor that by no means makes it a “weak class” as it has the potential to do major damage as a support or defense class.


Adding an armor buff- not completely against this idea, might make elf less of a risk to run on a roster. Although the amount of damage it does is kinda scary.

Credits-

Heck YEAH! Please I have so many it's not even funny.

 

tl;dr

elf sucks
elf has always sucked
elf rework sucks
elf still sucks

playing elf is a lot like playing pantheon lategame. You've got a lot of abilities and none of them do anything because ur useless af. i don't know how anyone has played more than 3 hours of this ****, I'd lose my goddamn mind lul (and I did)

problems with elf:

-wind element = discount soldier wallclimb
-water element = sh*tty AOE heal, cooldown, no duration unless you afk in it, marginally better than pre-rework (discount medic heal)
-pure element = discount archer headshot
-earth element = oh wait this doesn't exist anymore. PRAISE
-less tanky than medic

other issues

2 arrows for abilities mechanic is stupid
people worried about Elf buffs when archer exists
people worried about Elf buffs when strength 2, speed 1 heavies exist
people worried about Elf buffs when mage exists
people worried about Elf buffs when engineer exists
people worried about Elf buffs when dwarf exists

like we've got all this broken sh*t in ctf and yall are worried about making Elf less garbo becuz LUL HIGH SKILLCAP

is that not true for any other class lol. you have to use your abilities in tandem to get kills, objectives or whatever. Like Ninja eggs, stealth & sh*t. Or mage spells. mage/elf is actually a good comparison. the only difference is mage and ninja's abilities are actually useful and y'know.. work

guys i've got a great idea. let's make a class whose abilities all suck. then we can make players come up with these really complicated ways to use them in tandem to possibly do something because that's definitely what every player wants to do. poggers!!!

Wow it's almost like pure element is discount headshot and water element is discount medic heal

Wtf lol. Elf is not Thresh (from League). Sure both have high skillcaps and are probably (not 100% about Elf's case) rewarding when you play enough of them. The difference is, Thresh is fun. Even when you suck with him at least you can still do sh*t if you channel your inner madlife and land a hook. With Elf even if you land pure elements or that CLUTCH water element to stop a pyro/dwarf the impact is pretty lame by comparison

ofc I don't play much Elf because I hate it, but I've taken the time out to become good at Thresh - 1,000+ games on him - because he's enjoyable to play. You actually feel like ur doing something instead of trolling everyone (including your team)

not saying some people can't find elf enjoyable. punishment can be enjoyable, if you're into that sort of thing. but most people don't because they don't play competitive and actually want to have fun

saying 35% accuracy pure element accuracy 'isn't terrible' is like saying my 51% lab score in chemistry is 'a pretty good grade'

here's an idea: instead of adding a bunch of high skillcap bullsh*t to be abused by regulars, why not make sh*t (like all of Elf's abilities) less stupid and easier to use so new players don't get instantly rolled in game?

i'd hope this (water element) would be buffed regardless because it f*ckin sucks.

also why tf are you talking about nerf/buff tradeoffs for Elf. This Elf we're talking about, a class so useless it's mentioned in the same context as Necro lul

fixed it for you

imagine a world where no one moves. like ever. then you can hit consecutive pure elements, land a vortex, actually heal with the water element, and block headshots.

wow elf is so good

it's almost like elf wind element is discount soldier wallclimb



I took this from b0s' thread on the Elf EMP Update

this is the problem. It is not a rework when you leave the basic setup unchanged or 'almost unchanged'. Like that's not a rework, that's a tweak. Elf doesn't need tweaks. It doesn't need some fixes here and there. It needs a complete rework similar to what's been suggested on this thread by @Jul13n and @rayquaza611 (shorter cooldown on water element, longer duration, maybe more healing + making elf shield mobile instead of static) & some of the sh*t that was posted on the feedback 6 months back

B U F F
N A T I O N

 

The wind vortex is not a waste, the vortex is quite OP. You can stop flag carriers and make them stay still, not only is this giving time to your team to catch up too the carrier, but also leaves the carrier open for free headshots. If you arnt spamming wind element "*fly* then it is hard to lose arrows, as the arrows regen at a fast enough rate, along with the new update that you get 5 arrows per kill.

I also agree with rayquaza's point on how the shield should be activated and deactivated, as you PvP.

Water element is ok, it just needs a slight decrease of cooldown time.

Elf is an "ok" kit to use if you don't know how to. But when you do, it becomes quite strong. You have literally two weakness, mage and ninja

 

Is there literally any kit that isn't strong when you've played over 40 hours of it

 

Well I think every class is strong for a start, but you must of miss understood my point that people think elf is "ok" but in reality it is a very good kit.
Other kits take less time to master, whereas elf takes alot to be effective.

 

Necro is already amazing dude

 

I feel like people complain about elf because they either don’t know how to play the class properly, or just because of it’s gear. (add prot 2 pls)
Elf is a very hard class to master, DEAL WITH IT.

 

agreed, hard to master but extremely powerful in all areas of the field.