1. Welcome to the Brawl website! Feel free to look around our forums. Join our growing community by typing /register in-game!

Idea Scout

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by GalaThundR, Oct 21, 2018.

Thread Status:
Please be aware that this thread is more than 30 days old. Do not post unless the topic can still be discussed. Read more...
  1. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    902
    Ratings:
    +721
    Discord:
    GalaThundR#7914
    Since new classes are being brought up I thought I'd re-open the scout case because it's probably the best option for a new class.

    Passive speed I
    Leather helmet, leggings, and boots (feather falling II)
    Iron chestplate
    Iron sword (sharpness I)
    3 steak

    Abilities:
    Dash -
    Right clicking the sword while still or moving forward dash the Scout 7 blocks forward in the direction they're looking. Will gain speed II for 2 seconds after. Cooldown of 5 seconds after dash - not speed effect ending.
    Strafe -
    Right clicking the sword while moving primarily left or right will make the Scout strafe 3 blocks in the direction they're moving. Will gain Speed II for 1 second after use. Cooldown of 3 seconds after strafe.
    Backstep -
    Right clicking the sword while moving backwards will make the Scout jump back 3 blocks behind itself. Will gain Speed II for 1 second after use. Cooldown of 3 seconds after backstep.


    Scouts can only dash horizontally and not through blocks. (Subject to change)
    Pros - Simple, versatile ability. Class can be used in multiple roles. Much needed new free class. Assumingly easy to code because this was made with vanilla cmd blocks in 40 minutes. @redslime?
    Cons - Perhabs too fragile? I purposely tried to make it stronger than it should be within reason but eh, i'm not too good at damage values.

    + I don't plan on returning anytime soon I just popped on the forums one day and saw new classes were being discussed. Thought it'd be fun to make some with cmd blocks since I'm gaining an interest with them.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #1 GalaThundR, Oct 21, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  2. pestoo

    pestoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Ratings:
    +30
    I like the general idea, but the sharpness I iron sword part seems a bit too op. I am assuming this is based off the tf2 scout?
     
  3. scapezar

    scapezar Ex-Ban/Appeal Manager | Ex-Hack Test Manager

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    Ratings:
    +453
    Discord:
    Jul13n#9311
    i like, but tbh if a new class gets added we should take opportunity to make it really cool and unique

    like it should totally be able to run thru a wall or something lol, if it's going to be centered around high mobility might as well give it another cool feature for it

    i tossed the idea around a lot here, gave details on it with some feedback as well
    https://www.brawl.com/threads/73070/#post-931609

    idk what else could be added to make it more unique than an assassin dash while keeping it simple and centered around mobility
     
  4. Icarus_82

    Icarus_82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +95
    Discord:
    Keeler #0008
    I really like this idea. People are already playing soldier on defence and it makes sense to use a class that is actually designed for it rather than one which is designed for capping. My only potential problem is that adding this would leave the current stalemate problem unchanged - not that this class should be the one fixing it, but other changes should be added alongside this to fix that issue.
     
  5. yairster

    yairster Yes
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Ratings:
    +53
    I like this idea, but it seems a bit over powered while defending the flag. For instance, if the opponent captured your flag, you will be dashing towards him, and then getting the speed II. Ninja is also really strong with defending, yet the class takes damage while teleporting. I want there to be another defending class, but this, I can't see in-game.
     
  6. Proterozoic

    Proterozoic Wiki Team is a Semi-Staff Rank

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,227
    Ratings:
    +916
    Needs tweaking and some thorough testing, but it's viable
     
  7. Northernlreland

    Northernlreland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    229
    Ratings:
    +86
    Love great mobility classes, I like it
     
  8. Spades_

    Spades_ Former CTF Mod

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +229
    Tbh it sounds like something that should already be in the game
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. obikenobi21

    obikenobi21 Delta Force Jedi

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    571
    Ratings:
    +288
    I know you specify Scout can only dash horizontally, but I think it would be cool if they could dash any direction (so like vertically for example). It gives the class more versatility in my opinion.
     
  10. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    902
    Ratings:
    +721
    Discord:
    GalaThundR#7914
    I'd rather have a class that starts off OP than to start off weak. I tested the dmg with the iron sword with different class armor sets and it seemed pretty balanced so I'd rather keep it and if it proves to be too strong it can be tweaked in the future. Scout and Tracer pretty much.

    Kind of agree that the ability was too basic. I expanded the ability by adding Strafing and Back Stepping. It doesn't add abilities to the class but expands off the existing ability. I made sure they keep the class straight-forward and easy to use.
    Definite no on the "through blocks" idea. Would be way too op in recovery or capping. I firmly believe no class should have it's abilities restricted because it has the flag; the only exception being Ninja's invis. It makes things too convoluted and frustrating.

    The class's main role is recovery so it should be able to excel at that. The health of scout is pretty low so it's not too difficult to kill. Maybe the Scout becomes more vulnerable to damage for a limited amount of time every time it dashes?

    I don't see why not. I kept it horizontal mainly because Soldier should dominate the vertical mobility while Scout dominates the horizontal mobility, with ninja dominating both at the expense of it's terrible hp.

    -Changed dash sound
    -Improved dash a e s t h e t i c
    -Added Strafing
    -Added Back stepping
    -Updated video

    @redslime (sorry for spam tagging you but i'd love to hear feedback from you.)
     
  11. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    I get this would be free but like, i could play this

    or i could play ninja
     
  12. redslime

    redslime Lead Developer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,123
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Discord:
    redslime#8503
    yes
     
  13. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    902
    Ratings:
    +721
    Discord:
    GalaThundR#7914
    True, but this class has its own unique abilities that defines it apart from ninja. It's not just "you get to run fast"
    Free classes need to have very simple yet effective abilities that make them appealing to new players and I feel this sufficed while being unique. It's similar to Ninja, yes, but different enough to not call it a rehash.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  14. EmperorTrump45

    EmperorTrump45 Dank Memer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,796
    Ratings:
    +2,157
    This class has a couple dashes and speed boosts. That's it. Ninja can do all of this already with its built in mobility and enderpearls - and the mechanics of this are all clunkier than Ninja (i.e. move backwards and right click to do x, move to the side and right click to do y. Like why lol)

    It's tankier and there's no mobility penalty so the playstyle would be different so it's not technically a rehash. I'd just play ninja tho lul (or Chemist - more sustain, plenty of mobility after jump boost & speed, and way more damage)
     
  15. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    6,096
    Ratings:
    +2,517
    Not sure if this is your intent, but what I'd like to see from Scout:
    • Free
    • Easy to pick up, low skill cap
    • Should be a competent recovery class
    ("Free recovery class" seems to have always been the idea of Scout, correct me if I'm wrong)

    The most important factor of a recovery class is a high damage output. The main recovery classes - ninja, assassin and pyro, all have very high damage outputs. All free classes have a low damage output (apart from archer, but it's almost useless in stalemates as all the flag holder has to do is camp inside).

    Scout has a very low damage output compared to other recovery classes, so it's not going to be effective against heavy. It's low damage output combined with no additional vertical mobility means it's not going to be very good against soldier or elf. It's mobility is nothing compared to ninja capping, so it won't counter that either.

    I don't think this class will counter any capping class, meaning it won't be a very effective recovery class.
     
  16. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    902
    Ratings:
    +721
    Discord:
    GalaThundR#7914
    I'm not too great at determining damage values so suggestions are welcome. I felt this class would get too boring with just a forward dash so adding side and backstepping expanded off of that and allow the class to have a pretty good way to dodge attacks, combo, and provide a hard counter to classes like mage. I don't feel like it's clunky at all I tried to make it as straight forward and effective as I could so if you have any suggestions on how to improve it more i'll be glad to hear it.
    I'm also up to making the sidestepping much more effective as a strafe-dodge mechanic by decreasing the range and cooldown of them. You can strafe left or right 1.5 blocks from where you were with a cooldown of 1 second. That or keep the 3 range limit with a 2 second cooldown. Removing speed II after side/back stepping would help aswell.

    As stated before I'm pretty bad at damage values. That is pretty much exactly how I view how Scout should be as well and tried to accomplish that. Currently, Scout is free and is easy to pick up with it's simple dashing. Side and back stepping is a bit more complicated but i'm sure players can easily figure out how it works and use it to their advantage. The only problem about this Scout that i've heard so far is too low damage output. How about giving it sharp II or III?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. scapezar

    scapezar Ex-Ban/Appeal Manager | Ex-Hack Test Manager

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    Ratings:
    +453
    Discord:
    Jul13n#9311
    what if you give it a "Power Sword" from lazer's dwarf rework ??
    https://www.brawl.com/threads/73855/

    Scout would be extremely OP for any run-away - being able to dash to their side or front and hit the flag carrier back - and do this repeatedly for not getting killed in 3ish hits. A flag carrier would also need to do knock the Scout out of the way if this happens, or even in a mess of a recov scenario near an enemy spawn, so this variable factor of sword strength would play very interestingly and balanced tbh (starting as default iron sword at the very most, and possibly even buffing the armor/resistance of the scout to be able to suck in more hits, which would make it even more noob friendly B))).

    fr just imagine a Scout getting 6 C-C-Combo'd from a better pvper, and then having its sword upgraded all the way to sharp VI... would be a gf and a scary recoverer
     
  18. SoCool21

    SoCool21 Bans Reports & Appeals Admin | McPvPer for Life <3

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Messages:
    6,096
    Ratings:
    +2,517
    The dash ability is very easy to understand and anyone could use it easily for capping. It's also fairly easy to understand how it would be useful for recovering, however in order to use it properly you'd need to be semi-competent at the game. It'd take a new player an hour or 2 to get the hang of using dashes in recovery, which is far above the attention span that most new players seem to have.

    Side and back stepping again would be useful, but it'd take more practice for it to be effective. Free classes need to be very easy to be effective with.

    I think a Sharp III iron sword would be suitable. This is still lower than assassin, pyro and ninja's damage output but it's also got a better combination of armour and health pool. The abilities would still need sorting out, though.
     
  19. GalaThundR

    GalaThundR Mcpvp Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    902
    Ratings:
    +721
    Discord:
    GalaThundR#7914
    I mean the same argument could be said about Medic or Soldier. I don't know how to make the dash ability even more streamlined and easy to use than it already is. I feel like new players will be attracted to Scout the most mainly due to it's fast-paced nature, while gaining the skills playing it. It would also encourage more objective-based gameplay for new players in recovering or capping because its fast nature.
    I'm open to ideas to make the ability even easier to use. All it is is a right click while moving.

    I'm fine with sharp III. Thanks!
    Going off what @SoCool21 said, free class abilities need to be very simple yet very effective.
     
  20. Dequoy

    Dequoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    113
    Ratings:
    +50
    I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I actually like the idea, @GalaThundR

    I'm envisioning a scout, or a small team of scouts, darting after an enemy flag carrier as soon as they see that the flag was grabbed and they respawn with /scout. They chase down the flag carrier, run AHEAD of the enemy flag carrier then turn around to hit them back a bit until more powerful characters catch up to join in reclaiming their flag.

    In stalemates, I can see scouts running and dashing across the map, not being quite as dangerous or susceptible to damage as assassins, being far more easily spotted than ninjas, but being especially harder than either of them to snipe or land any ranged hit due to the somewhat erratic movement potential. Once a scout reaches the enemy flag room, they could distract the people there by dashing around and running faster than most, swinging their sword now and then to keep them on their toes...and serve true to their class name by scouting and reporting what the enemy flag defenders are doing and what classes are making up their defense team. Even when they're killed they'd be able to get back to the enemy flag room fairly quickly to report back any updates.

    Even without added perks, and even with a weaker weapon, scouts could prove useful as a free class - especially for those who have no premium classes yet and get frustrated by so many others being able to move around much more quickly. This would offer a taste of what CTF PvP is like in the fast lane without being too powerful to leave the other free classes ignored.

    Only one small thought/suggestion about the dash ability... As you have it now, standing still or moving forward while right-clicking with the sword will dash forward. I propose having the sword only dash forward when right-clicking while moving forward (unless staying still and sneaking/crouching disables the dashing?) -- the reason being that sometimes blocking is better than activating the dash cooldown (like when an assassin is about to assassinate and be an easy kill when it's blocked).

    +1 from me on this, and I know you've been doing it awhile but again I'm late to the party so I'll just share this thought now: Nice touch, making those demo videos using command blocks!
     
    #20 Dequoy, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Scout fall damage steak and respawn bugs Capture the Flag Aug 1, 2020
Idea Scout Tweaks Capture the Flag May 27, 2020
Idea scout addition Capture the Flag Oct 30, 2019
Scout Death Tag Cooldown Meter Capture the Flag Aug 3, 2019
Scout and Assassin Capture the Flag Jul 7, 2019
Thread Status:
Please be aware that this thread is more than 30 days old. Do not post unless the topic can still be discussed. Read more...