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Idea Dwarf Rework - A Different Approach

Discussion in 'Capture the Flag' started by Altered10, May 7, 2018.

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What are your thoughts on this Dwarf Rework?

  1. +1 Nice rework. Add it as is or with minor tweaks.

    10 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. +0 With some work, this could be legit.

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
  3. -1 Sorry, mate. This is garbage.

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
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  1. Altered10

    Altered10 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
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    Ratings:
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    (Note: Some of you may not recognize me, due to a long period of inactivity, but I am a CTF veteran who has long created class concepts and reworks.)

    (Note 2: Except for the 1.9+ sword/axe mechanics, I use 1.9+ values that may or may not be accurate in regard to the current version of CTF. Regardless of accuracy, please just focus on the big picture.)

    (Note 3: Warning. Long post. Skip to TL;DR if you're lazy.)


    INTRODUCTION
    Problems of current Dwarf:
    • Due to class mechanics, limited to only one role: flag defense.
    • Overpowered in the above singular role due to the heavy emphasis on the snowballing effect.
    • Dwarf has one of the lowest skill caps in the game.
    • Players tend to refrain from using the class.
      • It’s uninteresting to some because of the single role, lack of mobility, and slow leveling.
      • Cost of dying is massive (loss of all hard-earned levels).
    General goals of this rework:
    • Near-complete overhaul on class mechanics to increase amount of roles (on top of flag defense, the following hopefully viable roles are added: support, capping, recovery, counter to certain classes).
    • Minor nerf in regard to flag defense role effectiveness.
    • Making the class fun to use.
    • Increase skill cap.


    THE REWORK (part 1) – Armor/Hotbar
    Armor:
    • Chainmail Helmet (unchanged)
    • Diamond Chestplate (unchanged)
    • Chainmail Leggings (instead of Diamond Leggings)
    • Chainmail Boots (unchanged)
    Hotbar:
    • Iron Axe (instead of Diamond Sword)
    • 3 Steak (unchanged)


    THE REWORK (part 2) – Removed Stuff
    Passive Effects:
    • Fire Immunity
    • Potion Immunity
    • Hunger (no running)
    Other Stuff:
    • Charging via sneaking



    THE REWORK (part 3) – New Stuff
    New Charging Mechanic and Other Charging Changes:
    • Charge up by holding right-click on axe.
    • Rate of charge up is 16x greater than current dwarf (e.g. getting to lv10 in 12 seconds instead of 3 minutes 12 seconds).
    • Rate of charge loss is 4x faster (e.g. getting from lv10 to no levels in 48 seconds instead of 3 minutes 12 seconds).
    Other Changes to Charging and Levels:
    • Level cap is now 25.
    • 1 sharpness per 1 level (same rate), 1 knockback per 5 levels (slightly decreased rate), 1 fire aspect per 8 levels (greatly decreased rate)
    • All levels and enchantments lost upon hitting someone.
    Sneaking Buffs Now:
    • While sneaking, the following are granted:
      • Instakill immunity (assassinate and headshot).
      • Knockback immunity.

    New Dwarven Shield Ability:
    • When sneaking and holding right click with your axe in hand, a silver bubble will form around you.
      • Any melee (sword, axes, pickaxes, etc.) damage incurred against you or allies within this shield will be reduced by X (amount of levels; e.g. lv17 bubble will reduce by 8.5 hearts, while a lv2 bubble will reduce by 1 heart). Does not protect against ranged attacks, fire, potions, etcetera.
      • Any melee damage incurred against you or allies will be reflected back at the exact damage.
      • Dwarven Shield consumes levels at a constant rate of exactly 1 level per ¼ second; if lv25, the bubble will take 6.25 seconds to dissipate compared to Elven Shield’s 5.00 seconds.



    TL;DR
    • Nerf of armor.
    • Changed weapon from sword to axe and nerfed material.
    • No more immunity to fire and potions.
    • Dwarf can run now.
    • Crouching gives knockback immunity and instakill immunity.
    • Charging changed from crouching to holding right-click on axe.
    • Much faster charging.
    • Hitting empties levels completely.
    • New defensive ability akin to Elvin Shield, except countering melee rather than range.


    Rework Reasoning
    (within spoiler due to length)
    The New Mechanics:
    • To solve the problem of disinterest and the lack of multiple role viability, I determined, just as many have in the past, that an increase in mobility must be involved in the rework in some way. Some have tried to decrease the slowness, but, based on feedback that forumers have given to past Dwarf reworks, I decided on an entirely different approach, a unique approach involving running, a different charging mechanic, and instakill immunity (with a focus on headshots).
      • Allowing Dwarf to run opens up many options. For one, since they can change speed more efficiently (crouching/walking/running), they would be able to dodge ranged attacks. They would also be able to get to and from the enemy flag in a non-absurd amount of time, potentially opening up the role of capping.
      • Moving the Dwarf charge mechanic to the right-click of the axe means that Dwarf would not have to sneak constantly. They could RUN to the flag WHILE charging up. You may notice that this is one of the main reasons I chose an axe rather than a sword; right-clicking the axe does not slow you down (in vanilla Minecraft, it has no effect).
      • One major problem with Dwarf going offense, in the past, was Archers. For one, Archers could simply headshot the poor, slow-moving beasts. Even if the Dwarf managed to get past the 30+ block range of the Archers, Archers and Mages would have zero trouble attacking the Dwarfs by utilizing their Punch I bow and Spells respectively. To solve this problem and the separate problem of Dwarf not being able to block Assassins with the new axe, I tied some abilities to sneaking: instakill immunity and knockback immunity. The instakill immunity allows Dwarf to roam the battlefield without fear…with the cost of much slower moving speed, that is. The knockback immunity makes a Dwarf vs. Archer/Mage fight less unfair. On a side note, the knockback immunity also further cements Dwarf’s role as a Ninja counter in that Ninja strafe combos are less effective against Dwarf.
    • The new level 25 cap, combined with the new one-hit-only mechanic, serves the purpose of utility and making Dwarf’s defense role less OP but still very viable. One blow from a max-level Dwarf will deal 11 hearts of damage (3 hearts from Iron Axe, 8 from all the Sharpness), which is massive. If the Dwarf managed to make that a critical hit (a hit while falling down from a jump, usually), it would actually do enough damage to instakill Archers, Assassins, Chemists, Engineers, Ninjas, Pyros, and Fashionistas.
      • In regard to Dwarf’s defense, this would easily wipe out a single average flag-stealer (except for a Soldier and Elf). However, if a player with a heavier defense or a group of players came to steal the flag, Dwarf would struggle at protecting the flag. Also, Dwarf’s defense role is much less OP due to less emphasis on snowballing since Dwarf would lose their levels after hitting once.
      • In regard to utility, Dwarf would be able to safely approach (with the knockback immunity sneaking) and take out (the damage alone) common midfield threats such as Archers (yes, Archer, which would no longer counter Dwarf) and Engineers. It can also recover the flag from enemies due to the sheer amount of burst damage.
    • The drastic increase in charging speed means that Dwarf would not have to wait several minutes to become useful on the battlefield. It also means that the cost of dying is not as massive as before since, although Dwarf would still lose all its levels (which it would do anyways by hitting someone), it would be able to regain them quickly.

    The New Ability:
    • Even with their increased mobility, Dwarf would find it difficult to steal a flag. Slowness II still makes a huge difference. Also, if I were to fix the above problem alone, Dwarf would only have access to two primary roles: Defense and Capping. To hit two birds with one stone, I decided to give Dwarf an entirely new ability: Dwarven Shield. This ability would greatly boost Dwarf’s supportive capabilities (a new primary role that would open) and, at the same time, would allow Dwarf (and allies) walk into the enemy flag room totally protected from melee attacks, at least for a short period of time. On top of this, Dwarven Shield makes Dwarf much more interactive and, therefore, more interesting to use (partially solving the problem of disinterest). Besides, a Dwarven Shield in a game already with an Elven Shield kind of makes sense, right (since a dwarf, outside of CTF, is sometimes seen as a counterpart to an elf)?



    The Nerfs:
    • The new mechanics and the new ability together would make Dwarf a little OP. And so, I partially nerfed Dwarf as well.
      • One of those nerfs, as you noticed, was the one-hit-only mechanic regarding the levels; this ensured that Dwarf would not be too overpowered on defense. Groups of players or tanky classes would counter Dwarf.
      • Another nerf was the reduction in rate of attaining knockback and fire aspect. This, however, in my opinion, is a pseudonerf; although it takes more levels at a time to gain knockback/fire aspect, this new Dwarf has a higher cap on the amount of knockback/fire aspect it can have (Knockback V compared to Knockback II; Fire Aspect III compared to Fire Aspect II).
      • The other nerfs were the reduction of armor and the removal of fire/potion immunity. Dwarf has many more offensive capabilities (and an additional defensive capability in the form of Dwarven Shield), and so, reasonably, Dwarf must be balanced by having less defensive capabilities. This would make Chemist and Pyro clear-cut counters to Dwarf (especially one with no levels).
        • Side Note: Overall, Dwarf would have four primary counters: Chemist, Pyro, Mage, and Elf.




    And now it’s time for ratings and comments. Do me a favor and give your honest opinion and constructive feedback? I’ve had a few people in the past (whether they meant well or not) say simple things like “This is cool” or “This sucks” and ends the comment as is. I’d appreciate it. :smirk:



    Tags:

    @Nohox
    @Admiral_Mas0n
    @rayquaza611
    @TOM_SAYS
    @lasertagfighter
    @Spades_
    @THECOMMANDER5643
    @SoCool21
    @Miskey
     
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  2. THECOMMANDER5643

    THECOMMANDER5643 Well-Known Member

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    All in all, i think it's definitely a valid rework that should deserve a great deal of attention. Although I disagree with the role change, as it leaves no classes left to fill the pure defensive role that dwarf currently fills, the defensive support role that these changes would lend it to isn't that far off from a pure defensive role, and the new changes would allow those more adventurous players to experiment with offence more frequently.

    I like the mechanic that you have in place for the charging of the axe, as well as the rest of the allotments for the enchantments (although I wouldn't call the fire aspect 'greatly reduced' as going from 5 to 8 is about the same percentage jump as going from 3 to 5). The one-hit use of all the enchantments is a very unique twist that will have a lot of utility, although it could potentially leave the dwarf extremely weak, especially when compounded on its lower armor, to large-volume attacks, so I would experiment with either a base enchantment level on the axe or a mechanism where only part of the levels are used on each hit. For example, a 50% usage would be 25 to 12, 12 to 6, 6 to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, and 1 to 0 per hit, and a 67% usage would be 25 to 8, 8 to 3, 3 to 1, and 1 to 0. This would give the dwarf a little more survivability against those large scale encounters, as well as drastically reduce the damage output per swing to keep it in line with the theme that you have going right now.

    For the dwarven shield, I like how the shield functions, and it definitely brings a new support aspect to the dwarf. However, due to the slowness that still remains on the dwarf, even with the sprinting, archers will still be a large problem for dwarves crossing large open areas. I would suggest instead of the shield attrition rate, that instead the shield would function much like the axe, were the number of levels used to block damage is the number of levels removed from the dwarf. If the shield is completely reduced to 0, there is a cooldown of, say 2.5 seconds, where the dwarf could not regain levels again, but they could regain them immediately otherwise. This would allow the dwarf to still safely cross the open spaces while still allowing them to generate the levels needed to protect their allies. This can be disregarded if part of the reason you wanted this mechanic was to force dwarves to strategize between protecting your allies or crossing open fields.

    For the other aspects of dwarf, I would advise two additional items: 1. poison immunity, and 2. a mechanism to help combat against mages. The Both of these suggestions stem from the fact that even though a dwarf can now sprint, the slowness II still puts a huge disadvantage on a dwarf against chemists and ranged enemies, so much so that one could still kill a dwarf without even getting within melee range. An immunity to poison would help dwarves combat chemists, while still leaving them the option to use their main damage output tool of damage potions, and still allow chemists to be a hard counter to dwarf.

    For mages, even with the ability to sprint, there is literally nothing that can be done to defend yourself against a mage. I would suggest that the dwarven shield be able to be applied to mage damage spells in a limited fashion, where the dwarf takes 50% damage from the spell, the shield reflects 50% of the damage delt to the mage (25% of normal damage spell damage), and the shield takes level losses equal to the full spell's damage. This still allows for a mage to significantly put a damper on a dwarves' ability to do anything, but adds a level of difficulty to the mage's job that previously was never present.

    Overall, like I said before, I think it is a great rework that could become even better with just a few minor tweaks here and there. It takes a lot to get this out of me for a dwarf rework, but this one definitely deserves a +1, especially with those tweaks.
     
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  3. scapezar

    scapezar Ex-Ban/Appeal Manager | Ex-Hack Test Manager

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Ratings:
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    Discord:
    Jul13n#9311
    I like the change in the experience usage & charging rate (maybe slight tweaking required esp like how @THECOMMANDER5643 suggested so it doesnt mimic as much of an assassin), and I love the dwarven shield concept (with anti-kb shifting) maybe with some tweaks...

    Perhaps let it also reduce ranged damage so that headshot instakills can turn into 4-6 hearts of damage instead of being immune to headshots when sneaking, and maybe also do the same for assassination instakills (reduce it to 4-6 hearts of damage for all inside the bubble instead of the dwarf being immune to them when sneaking).
    (Perhaps also using what @THECOMMANDER5643 suggested with losing shield levels based on the damage reduced - but maybe just for instakills?)

    All in all this seems like more of a buff for dwarf (keeping nearly the same damage power while giving it better mobility) - so some nerfs in regards to its armor or max levels may be needed. But definitely a +1 for my favorite/best rework of what id like to see in-game
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
    #3 scapezar, May 10, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  4. TheZombieKat

    TheZombieKat CTFer since May 2012

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. In order to charge up you hold right click? When you let go it automatically starts to drain levels? You also lose all the levels you have when you hit someone?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Nohox

    Nohox [MCPVP]

    Joined:
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    I like this dwarf rework quite a bit, although there are a few points left unclear to me:

    1. Current dwarf has Slowness II and the hunger effect, preventing sprinting. You mentioned you removed hunger, does that mean dwarf keeps Slowness II?
    2. You mentioned that "Any melee damage incurred against you or allies will be reflected back at the exact damage". Since you already get decreased damage in the shield, does it reflect the decreased damage or the full damage? Do you still take damage or none at all?
    3. Essentially what ZombieKat asked above ^, what happens with the XP bar when you release right click?

    What I like most about this rework is that it keeps simplicity and does not jam loads of different functions into one class. It also sticks to current dwarfs charging feature which fits into CTF pretty well. Moving charging to right click is a good idea as it removes the need to sneak and be even slower to use the class' full potential. Faster charging and de-charging makes the class faster to use in general, which is a great improvement.

    I only have two gripes with this concept: The first one depends on question #1, if you remove hunger _and_ slowness, dwarf becomes a pretty boring class that can charge up and has a fancy shield. Having slowness gives the class more depth because it's a significant nerf to mobility which you can compensate for with a great deal of damage. The current dwarf feels so incredibly slow because you additionally have to crouch to charge, which you don't have to now.

    The second point is the shield, I am just not a fan of the elf shield. Not because of its functionality, but because it uses particles to emulate a feature, instead of using classic Minecraft features such as jump boost, the XP bar and such. Also it takes a while until the particles have faded, and as it has direct impact on combat, you might not know when the effect is gone. I don't like the reflect either (whatever it exactly does), less damage overall and a charged up axe should be powerful enough to defend.

    @THECOMMANDER5643 Since you are invincible to instakills now, it's fine giving dwarf a counter class like mage. Dwarf is still defense oriented, so if mages decide to enter the flag room they should be attacked by the other teammates. Class related exceptions to features like "reduced damage to dwarf for mage attacks" makes the class unneccessary complex, just keep it for all or remove it in my opinion.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Altered10

    Altered10 Member

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    @THECOMMANDER5643
    @Jul13n
    @TheZombieKat
    @Nohox


    Sorry I haven't responded to anyone. Don't worry, I'm not ignoring you all; I've just had a really ****** week due to finals and a medical emergency. I'll respond eventually. Promise.

    Thanks, though, for all your feedback! You all are great! :thumbsup:
    Welcoming additional feedback from others.

    Oh, and additional tag:
    @redslime
     
    #6 Altered10, May 11, 2018
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  7. ExtremeEvoboost

    ExtremeEvoboost CTF Media Man

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  8. THECOMMANDER5643

    THECOMMANDER5643 Well-Known Member

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    @Nohox
    Mage has always been a hard counter to dwarf, but the problem with mage is that anybody who isnt braindead can kill a dwarf with literally 0 effort, because they can stay well out of melee range of a dwarf, meaning there is essentially a 0% chance that a dwarf can ever kill a mage. The point of my suggestion is to make it so that a mage attacking a dwarf still takes some form of damage while attacking a dwarf to add some risk to the encounter where there previously was none. The same problem still technically exists for elf and archer, but their shots are much easier to dodge. I was also mostly thinking of this mechanic from an offensive standpoint, as that is the only real scenario where a dwarf would fight a mage.

    Additionally, you aren’t immune to instant kills all the time, you still need to activate a blocking mechanism like before, only this time it’s shifting instead of right click. I’m all for giving classes enough counters, I just want the countered classes to be able to have a chance at killing their counters, and at the moment, a dwarf can only kill a mage if they ambush it into a wall, and the mage is braindead (aka, you can’t). This mechanism will make the mage have to think about damaging the dwarf, giving it that vital second to close the distance and attack.

    As for the charging mechanism, Altur10 mentioned the charging mechanic. Holding right click will charge the axe to lvl 10 in 12 seconds. Letting go of right click will cause the axe to completely lose all those 10 levels after 48 seconds.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #8 THECOMMANDER5643, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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