Have we waited long enough?

The only part of your post I take issue with is this^

CTF is a team game. Teamwork doesn't make skill irrelevant, rather it makes skill more relevant because people have to work together to solve an issue - such as defending against the flag or stealing it.

Making solo capturing harder to do is not a bad thing, like you make it out to be. Teamwork should be more relevant to CTF. It shouldn't be like how it is right now where if you have exactly the right classes on defense or offense you have a great offense or a very strong defense, which is the kind of environment that encourages solo capturing.

I agree that if instant kills were removed or if OP capturing classes like Soldier got a mobility nerf solo capturing would be harder to do as it requires skill because, which makes it more difficult. The player can't so easily rely on the stupidly OP abilities of their respective class to achieve their goal. I don't see why or how this could be a bad thing as it makes CTF less about choosing or buying the right class and more about strategy.

Speaking of which, Soldier and Chemist (especially Chemist) need nerfs/reworks anyway.

 

I too am a member who has waited a long time for any kind of update but as stated above, CTF isn't their main priority right now.

 

@Admiral_Munson : I'm not saying it's a "bad thing," I would very much like CTF to be team oriented all the time. I'm saying that people in casual matches expect to be able to solo cap. If people can't solo cap now, and we just make it more difficult, I'm pointing out that more and more cappers will be unhappy with the game. I mainly stated it because we can't actually force people to use teamwork no matter how hard we try or want to. It wasn't really a focus I was trying to keep.

 

The root cause is probably associated with leadership and prioritization of work.

Until there are changes things will probably remain on the same trajectory.

 

Nevermind I basically agree with what @Quarrelt said.

 

You know I know this right xD I did mention it in my first posting. I'm all for it if people are willing to be chill about it.

 

@NomNuggetNom since you rated my post funny, can you please tell me why something everyone hates shouldn't be rolled back?
If you refuse to roll anything back, you can't say that "we won't get it perfect the first time" is an excuse.

 

Spoiler

 

Oww that's deep

 

You can do constant and minor changes, but that'll get pretty hard after a while, since everything in CTF is so connected. A good example is soldier and pyro, you would have to change both at once, and even chemist and pyro. Since pyro is so central to defense right now, a lot of things would need to be balanced accordingly, and that won't work with small changes. You would need a game plan.

I wouldn't say the rest of the defense is irrelevant, especially in team matches. However, pyros are by far the most efficient way to kill an offense because of a non-blockable insta-kill. Plenty of times the pyro dies but the flag-carrier doesn't get out. What people mean when they say "kill the pyro and I can get out" is that if you kill the pyro, they have a chance to get out. However, I'm not much of a capper so I'll focus on what I do know, which is recovery. Recoverers, especially ninjas have multiple chances to stop the flag-carrier, more so when yur team has the flag. I don't understand what you are saying witt the problem with no insta-kills is that nobody can catch up to the person. If you're talking only about pyro, assassin and archer are a thing, if you're talking about insta-kills in general, ninja. I do agree that offense needs to be nerfed alongside pyro changes, but I disagree with some of your logic here.

You can't force people to use teamwork, but you can give them incentive to. Positive, easy-to-understand benefits of teamwork would work wonders, the problem is implementing them.

 

eh i think it's also a lot to do with maps. maps are basically built around 3 classes; soldier, pyro and archer. make a map that's not soldier op and it's probably archer op because of a lack of structures. make a map that has a flag room that's anti-pyro and you have soldiers capping like no tomorrow. if you can make a map that is relatively balanced for all three so they keep each other in check then no other classes stand a chance, and making a map that isn't strong for all 3 is pretty damn hard.

i think if these classes were reworked then it would open up a hell of a lot of freedom for map making. maps like opposites/lighthouse V/valley of ruin/dragon valley, i.e. maps with enclosed flag rooms, would become a lot better maps to play on cuz you can actually stand a chance of recovering due to how the flag rooms are built (enclosed) since you can corner people and whatnot. but atm the problem with these maps is that pyros just dominate the flag room due to how enclosed the flag rooms are.

i do agree with u that there would be some maps that become really hard to recov on. new pagodas, blackout, kill creek, standoff, etc, would probably get removed/drastically changed if a rework like this took place, and i guess thats why i think it's more based around how the maps are built and not how the classes are reworked as to whether it's hard to recov or not.

 

I wasn't saying literally one change at a time cx I'm speaking generally here. Focus on one area, change as need be. For example: Use an instakill rework but have a soldier change on deck, like you said, a game plan. Try the rework, if it's really bad on the first few days of testing then make the soldier rework live. That's more of what I meant by small, constant changes.

This one I did mean more literally. Most skilled cappers can get out if there is no pyro. I don't really want to get into scenarios so I'm being more general. You know, obviously sometimes there's an assassin, or they get trapped or whatever, but that's all chance. What I was pointing out was the overview of the statement.

Again, scenarios. I meant this more like if your team didn't have the flag. Of course it's easier to recover when both flags are taken. I'm trying to avoid skills and scenarios here. Obviously a really good ninja will beat a bad soldier, but a soldier v. ninja, a soldier would win that fight since the soldier just has to run and it takes like 3 hits to kill a ninja, minus whatever damage the ninja took to pearl. I said that to point out that only certain classes can catch up. A heavy wouldn't be able to catch up to a soldier unless we added a slowness debuff or one of those ability cancelling effects. A slowness buff would require more teamwork but it wouldn't be fun since most people, like I said, expect to be able to solo cap. See what I mean?

Yes, I know this as well. People want to make it so teamwork is an absolute necessity, but I was saying that because no matter what we do, people are still going to think they can solo cap. Sure we can create boosters which is fine and dandy, but that mentality will always be there.

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Also general note here, I am terrible at explaining what I am thinking in my head so if something doesn't make any sense just tell me and I can try to clarify. I usually assume things or think I'm saying something that makes sense but that's rarely the situation ^^.

 

From my understanding 95-99% of the community hates it.

 

I don't know of any significant issues remaining with banners. It's an extreme overestimation to say that "everyone" hates it. Just because you hate it doesn't mean everyone does.

 

I'm pretty sure that pickup is still bugged (radius is smaller), you still can't use items when looking at it, and it still removed the helmet, and even if none of this were the case, the fact that 90% of people (estimated) don't like it should clue you into the fact that it should be removed.

 

Can we not have a vote on what next Mcctf should vote on and if we do have a balance we choose what class and the devs get a list of how.

The devs could also allow the community's ideas they spot to be shown in the vote if they wish

Also you could have ideas of removing the class Remakeing it or simply just needing things like damage

 

- The pickup radius can be adjusted and is not a problem with banners.
- You can use items while looking at it.
- Yes it removes the helmet, but I don't hear many complaints about it. We could remove flag poison to balance that.

Again 90% is a huge overstatement. You are basically the only person who continues to complain about it. You said you were going to leave if there were still banners when CTF was out of beta, so why don't you just leave if you still have a problem with it?

 

- @kevshadowslayer made a thread explaining his grievances in more detail.
-As of the time I played CTF last I couldn't use items (but that might be me)
-Removing flag poison doesn't counteract removing the helmet. It's the reduced damage input that needs to somehow be simulated.
-I did somewhat leave CTF for a game that has woo that is IDENTICAL to old CTF's wool. Mc-War.
And from what I've seen aground the forums if it's an overstatement it's not huge.

 

There is still a hitbox on the flag, js