Idea Democracy

This thread has more ratings than Brawl news february.

 

It damn deserves it too.

 

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but I guess someone has to.

In all honesty, democracy is a terrible idea for a game server such as this. Now, if you want to prove me wrong you must read what I am saying first unless you want to make a fool of yourself.

The only people to make decisions for a game should be a head person or someone specifically dedicated to gameplay changes. Why? Because no one in the community knows what is best for CTF. Maybe a few people have put out agreeable ideas and popular opinions, but truly nothing will go right with a "democratic" type of voting system on CTF. Now how come no one knows what is best for CTF? Because everyone is biased. People think archer deserves a nerf because it's "broken", "overpowered", or a dumb instakill class, however nerfing archer right now without nerfing multiple other classes will cause extreme unbalance within the game, and then because archer was overwhelmingly voted for a nerf, the game will be unbalanced. People will be separated upon the matter, everyone's ideas will be different and close to no one would agree. There would be utter chaos, and a similar matter of republicans vs democrats would ensue. And if changes aren't shoved down the community's throat, nothing will get done. This scenario can be substituted with other classes too.

And what about the mods? The mods don't know whats right for CTF either. They are just much biased as everyone else and not to name names, but there are mods that would fight against a change because they main the class or would effect them. Saying the mods know what they're doing in terms of gameplay is like saying real life police can work in congress. They know how to enforce rules, ban, mute, ref, and kick, but there's no guarantee they'll know how to improve the game.

Anyway, these are my reasons why a democracy is not a realistic idea on CTF, brawl, or any other minecraft server out there. The only thing that can work is a totalitarian dictatorship. Thnx4reading!

 

Well I'm sorry to counter your total bullsh*t but hey! Someone has to!

Yeah I know. Just look at what happened to Britian after they got democracy. Empire went down the frickin' drain.

All because of those damn peasants.

What is 'best for CTF'? The hell are you talking about. CTF is not some eighty year old, but looks like eight hundred year old, grandmother who's hooked up to an oxygen tank, taking fifty pills a day, and eating vintage JELL-O in some god forsaken nursing home. You can't just make decisions for what is 'best' for a game-mode like you can for that grandmother when the old lady is probably one step away from those pearly gates anyway so what's best for her is probably a comfy bed and a nice coffin unless she's one of those people who wants to preserved as a stuffed doll in the 'Mom Museum' (yes that is a real place) for the next sixty five million years.

On the other hand, a game-mode like CTF is literally a static concept that can be whatever the heck you want it to be as long as it involves fapturing some clags so there is no thing that is 'best for CTF'. What there is, is what is best for Brawl as a business, and what is best for the community that plays its game modes, like CTF.

This is why we need more community input. The more people who are involved in the process, the more diversity of opinions you can get, and the greater the chance is for creating a CTF that more people find enjoyable (and playable).

This is not about leaving everything up to a popular vote. This is to say "hey maybe the community should have some input on what the hell is going on". Not an unreasonable request.

Where in Allah's good, rapidly overheating and over polluted world (thanks humans), did that scenario come from? Oh yes, because people think Archer needs a nerf (or rework preferably), which a lot of people do suddenly Archer will be nerfed, tossed back into the game like that three legged wolf from the frickin Guardians of Ga'Hoole book and the game will go to hell like a Michael Bay movie.

Dang, that logic train derailed before it even left the station. You know what we call that in this hood? The slippery slope fallacy because you are equating a potential popular demand that Archer be nerfed with a disconnected result that Archer would be singularly nerfed by staff, and the game would be ruined because of it. Also its hilarious that you seem to infer that CTF would be 'unbalanced' only if precious Archer got nerfed.

Like, Archer isn't the one ring from LoTR, you know? Things don't go to hell if it gets screwy. The beacons of Gondor don't get all lit up and sh*t, Gandalf doesn't turn into a super white hipster swagboy, and unlike the land of Rohan... CTF has already (mostly) gone to hell.

What.

Oh nooo! Not democracy! Titanic all over again!!!

@LordChaos_92 you readin this sh*t bro?

lol no. As someone who intensely follows politics I can tell you that statement is complete nonsense as it is literally completely different from what is being proposed here. Community members are not 'electing' any staff (thank goodness), they are just able to give more input on changes and have a real say on what gets done instead of basically no say at all, like right now.

I believe you are mistaking the CTF forums community (which is basically the only part of the community that actively makes their views on CTF known) for the current U.S. Congress.

We do not have ideologies that divide us. We do not have community members taking millions of dollars in contributions from anti change special interests, and if we did that would be pretty damn strange.

Speaking from someone who observes the community on the forums and in game I can safely say that: We all want to have fun, we all want CTF to not be a game that does not have (largely) stupid, boring, and annoying gameplay. We all want Necro to be actually useful (poll after poll has indicated this). We all want Dwarf to not be the class that it currently is. We all want Assassin to be changed in some fashion (a lot of people around here have favored a rework of some sort). We all want Mage to be a little less of the midfielding monster it currently is (no I am not taking about a Mage nerf). Etc, etc.

Which is why we need more community input (democracy) in CTF...?

Where were you going with this?

Oh joy, I can hear Hillary Clinton talking already! Someone, bring me my puke bucket!

But seriously, did you know that 'realistic' is one of the biggest words in the glossary of political bullsh*t?

OH GOD

Welp you know what? I didn't want to do this but I'm gonna use this meme. Yep, I can't stop it! HERE IT COMES!!!



IT'S A FLIPPIN RICKTATORSHIP MAN! CAN'T FIGHT IT! IT'S WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU!!!

Please. Spare us this nonsense.

Good day to you sir/madam/possibly somewhere in between,

-Admiral

 

Demo crazy!

 

@tvisthebomb although your point would be more valid if the dictatorship we currently have would only consist of the coder(s) and not additionally of Chap telling the coder(s) what to do, because he certainly knows even less than you or me how CTF works or where the problems lay.

 

@Admiral_Trump i have skimmed through your argument. Valid points do come up through it, however you are definitely taking things out of context. One such example is when I say no one knows what's right for ctf, you seem to be taking it as an insult. I say this is a manner to express that simply the majority of the community here can't correctly balance the game. Also with the archer scenario, it is completely made up. I implied that it was a likely possibility and I'm sorry you took it out of context and thought it meant it was going to happen. And another point I'd like to explain is that if CTF was a democracy it would very similarly play out like America, Liberals and conservatives.

Thanks for taking my political stances on a block game and comparing them to my irl political stances, because they are nothing alike.

@Plautius True, Chap may not be the most experienced in terms of ctf however the coders wouldn't be ideal either. The coders, like mods, are only required to be experienced in their jobs. Nom's job isn't to improve gameplay of anything, unless it's fixing a bug or implementing what he is told to do.

 

@MightyCharlie Soooo it seems like this could all work the same way if there was just a lot more communication between players and mods in the Server Ideas section. Each thread in this section is read by mods, but only a fraction of them get mod responses. Imo if you just ask for more forum activity from mods (at least in the Ideas section), lots more about the behind-the-scenes of Brawl could be understood and then problems could be much better worked out from there. If every single thing going on behind the scenes are totally classified, then we mayyy have a slight problem.

 

Asking for the mods to be more "active" on the forums is actually asking a lot more than you think it is. Most of the time small and simple ideas are noticed because well, they're simple and easy to implement into the game. However large things such as class ideas, reworks, etc. are a pain because they are usually just flawed or "not to their liking" I guess I could say. It's not very trustworthy to see an idea off the forums and just implement it like a rework or class idea, and I can back this up because it's literally never been done before. What I'd say is that they collect all suggestions, opinions, and ideas for whatever they are adding or changing, and pick favorable things from each and piling it into the final product. I can't say anything for what goes on behind the scenes though, I'm sure there are more things going on than we think, for instance map wave XI, so there is no way to tell.

 

Um, no, it's not more than I think. All of the threads get read anyway (@TheZombieKat I believe you told me this correct me if I'm wrong ), so why not at least get a response from a mod every time they read the thread? And some updates on those idea threads would be great. Let's say someone posted the New Year's pyro rework as their own idea some time ago: a mod would look at it, see it as a pretty good idea (or not, but let's assume positivity for exemplary purposes), respond to the thread and give their opinion on it and whether or not they will bring it up to the rest of the Brawl staff; if the Brawl staff goes into discussion about it, some mod--possibly the original one in this example--would go and post on the thread that the idea is under consideration.

I never said that more communication would be an actual update process. In fact, it's simply an upgrade of the current system. Mods already read the threads, sometimes responding to them; it would be nice if they always responded to them, and if they would be so willing, to also read some responses of other people to the idea threads to get an idea of what others think of the ideas.

 

Yes the threads do get read. However there's no answer to your argument. You'd have to ask a mod themselves because I'm past my limit here. However the mods probably have their reasons, or don't. Idk.

But anyway after being on the server for about 3 1/2 years, the harsh truth is that usually the mods don't like and go with ideas that aren't theirs, which is what I've noticed. Never before elf was released have I ever seen a class idea like it before.

To your argument about pyro, the class rework like that has probably been suggested 50 times throughout the course of ctf. The numbers or functions aren't exactly the same as the people who came up with it, therefor showing that usually ideas are just clustered together to make a final product like the pyro rework. The same thing with soldier. The idea that soldier should have a cool down on wall climb has been around for ages, so numbers are tweaked and they change it to their liking.

 

@pookeythekid What I said was that I try to read every thread. I only reply to them if I have something to say. .n.

 

No, but if it is neither considered the coders' job nor the mods' job, why not let the people do it so the majority of the community, which would've voted on the topic, gets their will and therefore the maximum amount of people are happy with the outcome?

 

My name was mentioned and I heard the word "chaos", hello

If we're going to argue about democracy vs a dictatorship, I'll just point out that I would much rather prefer democracy, though democracy can lead to indecision when people can't agree on a particular issue, pushing things further back than if a dictator would simply make one.
Also gonna point out that nobody truly knows what's best for CTF. People have ideas for what could be good, but with every suggestion there'll be a person opposed to that idea. That's what the suggestion section is for, and why there is some debate on every thread on their. You also get people complaining about the lack of updates, and people complaining about the updates when they happen. Everyone has a differing opinion of exactly what is "best" for CTF, it makes it impossible to make everyone perfectly happy. The best that can be done is to try make the majority happy by following a particular route

 

How about we don't have a democracy OR a dictatorship? Let's have a Theocracy!
Nah, theocracies are stupid. Let's have a Monarchy! Yeehhhh!! Monarchy, woo hoo! Constitutional Monarchy, of course.
As the great and glorious mighty nation of Djibouti has a multi-party democracy, I also support the idea of a democracy. As True Korea has a dictatorship, than I support that too. If Mother Russia is a communist state, then I support communism as well. But the United Nations of Jaydan and Depsoria have a constitutional Monarchy, so I support a Monarchy the most. We shouldn't forget that the UK also has a Monarchy, and the UK is one of, if not the most important country in western society (remember, if it wasn't for the UK, Canada and the USA would be entirely different. I'm not gonna bother with an entire alternate scenario though, it'll take too long), so that's a big plus for Monarchy. And yes, a House of Lords and a House of Commons would be necessary to add the democratic part of the greatest Monarchies.

Long live the Queen! Vote Monarchy for Brawl 2k16!

 

Which is why it is a good idea to read people's posts so you know what they are talking about. But please, do continue.

First off, no I did not take it as an insult, that was sarcasm. Secondly, no one in the history of anything gives a sh*t about 'balancing' CTF. That's boring. People want a game that is unbalanced (within reason of course) and fun as hell.

What you seem to have totally misunderstood, and I'm not really sure how since I literally gave a very creative analogy for you, is that there is nothing that is 'right for CTF' since it is a static concept with the only certain thing being a flag that some dudes have to capture sooner or later.

Lol. How did I take that out of context? You literally stated that if the community voted for an Archer nerf all this bad stuff would happen. Pretty sure I didn't misread that disaster of a logic train. In your own words:

How does this conclusion make any sense? You were clearly using this analogy to make your point that democracy could be bad for CTF, but it does not work since it is even more bogus than an Adam Sandler movie.

No. No it wouldn't. It really wouldn't. You have literally no basis for this conclusion. None. Zero. As such, you are committing the false comparison fallacy where you are basically comparing apples and oranges here. Or watermelons and potatoes.

Just because they both have a round shape does not mean they are the same thing, much like how letting some peeps actually get to vote on what changes should be implemented in a freaking Minecraft game is NOTHING like U.S. congresspeople voting on national policies.

What.

When did I do that...?

(Do you support Hillary Clinton or something? Because I was making a joke...)

 

My point still stands regardless of what mods currently do. What I said is about what mods could do.

;-; I kinda said more than once before that mods read all the threads. But er well, point is that mods care ^-^ (right?... at the very least you care :3).

 

We read a lot of the threads, if not all of them, and reply to the ones we have opinions on/something to add. The mods do care. If we didn't care, why would we be mod/do anything?