Honestly can this just stop [Rant]

Aww. But dwarf was literally the last class I got. VIP would be useless for me. ;-;

 

Even if archer wasnt one of my mains, I see it as a necessary point of defense, no rework/nerf would save archer from being able to defend against 50-75% of the attackers unless theres more then 3. I feel like you dont play archer legitimately, I am constantly targeted by randies and most of the time killed cause I get distracted.

Btw, that chemist heavy fight is untrue, i was really the only defense and i had only 10 of my 20 hp left and no steak because no one else would come. I still believe chemist is a heavy and ninja combined due to good armor, speed, and damage capabilities. Its basically a severely buffed ninja and a little bit buffed heavy.

The archers that abuse archer is what give it a bad name, we wouldnt be havin this talk at much or at all if archers didnt crouch and hide behind trees/shoot at spawn.

Archer isnt doing anything gamebreaking, it does its job, plain and simple.

And no, I wont shut up. Idc how much you dont like my talks or me in general. No, i will not.

Good day versiens

 

First things first, dont play chemist imo. Contrary to popular belief I have noticed chemist is really easy to kill when you're a heavy. Like super easy. Probably because the armor is basically leather (I'm not sure if it has buffs or not though)
The only times it has been difficult to kill a chemist is when they drop pots to knock you back a little or medics teaming with them.

 

Because they die to archer a ton without a plan to either dodge the archer, etc. They are just like, herp a derp just gonna walk to the flag room with no ill consequences. Geez

 

oketay
Soooooooo how bout that dwarf rework?

 

A dwarf rework would be great yeah.

 

First of all, I can't even believe we're still arguing about this given that archer is going to change anyway. Chap has made it clear instakills are going, and so whether you like it or not, it's GOING to change. I'm going to point out that as an archer, I'm in favour this because currently archer is too good at it's role currently.
@TheSkullOfNight,

Firstly, archer is a necessary point of defense, just as every class should be have necessary roles. That's absolutely reasonable. THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY YOUR ARGUMENT. Every class has a necessity, it does not mean that the class should be OP because it's necessary. People target archers because funnily enough they are a massive threat because they are so powerful. With less threatening classes you actually get attacked less, because people presume others will take you down (archer's also a killing class, and if you kill things, people will want revenge, only natural). With this in mind, far from being a reason for not reworking archer, I think it's more of a reason to do so: Having so many go after a class as a threat suggests it's more dangerous than it perhaps should way.

Irrelevant. There's no right and wrong way to play any class. That's hence why some crazy daredevils attempt to dwarf cap. It's not designed for that role, but it doesn't mean that you're playing the class wrong. You can be a better archer than someone else. You can also resort to cheap tactics, spawnkilling and such. People won't thank you for it, but it's still a way to play the class, and it's not against any rules (outside of matches in certain circumstances) With that in mind, there is NO wrong way to play a class of any sort, let alone just archer. True, people won't thank you for firing at their spawn as an archer, but again, isn't that kind of showing where the problems with archer lie? You can effectively spawn camp an entire team with one person by standing there and shooting. People won't thank you, but you won't get banned for doing it! That's just demonstrating in that situation archers are incredibly threatening, and why they're more powerful than they should be.

Nope, but in hindsight neither is any class doing anything absolutely game-breaking. If it was game-breaking, nothing would be able to stop that class. People can stop any classes with the right tools. That doesn't mean the class isn't OP, just not to the extent of game destruction. It does do it's job, yep, no doubt about that. The problem is, it does it's job too well. I think that's the point you're missing here. yes, archers are important for defense and can be played in some less than skillfull ways, but it is too good at what it does and need to be fixed! There are also situations where, with enough archers, an entire team could be spawntrapped, which could be considered pretty game-breaking, and so even this is pretty shaky!

Firstly maps should be balanced for all classes, not OP for 1 particular class. If it's OP for 1 then it's a bad map. Archer is necessary but as I've already said is not a justification for it to be overpowered in it's role. Yes, making archer weaker will mean other classes will get stronger, but that means it'll be closer to what is FAIR because currently archer is too good at stopping them. Offensive classes may also get tweaked as they might be a bit too powerful, but that isn't the discussion at hand right now. Yeah, archer is important in killing things, it's a role of the class, but IT IS TOO GOOD AT THAT ROLE, which is what you're missing. I could argue the last sentence could be put both ways. it's like you want the game to be easy boring and OP for you whilst using an OP class. Archer as it is, is too easy!

Strafing, sure. Ninja, a decent archer can fend off a ninja attack pretty easy with it's steak and armor. A bit too bulky if you ask me, especially with the punch on the bow

The only way I can make my point clear on this is:


These are my archer stats. You see the 13kdr, meaning on average, every time I play archer i get a 13 streak. Yeah, not gonna lie, this whole thing about see a ks more than 10 is ridiculous. I saw several more than 10 just messing around earlier on. This is so ridiculous Im just gonna end that conversation there xD

I don't want you to shut up, in fact I'd quite like some legitimate reasons why archer shouldn't be balanced properly. I've just proved that the arguments you made in a couple posts are irrelevant, and getting some more legitimate reasons for the opposing view might be interesting for this side of the debate

Please, if you have some legitimate reasons for why archer shouldn't be reworked, by all means I'll hear you out. At the moment though, all your arguments are invalid, and a couple are kinda ridiculous.

(thank you for the tags @Admiral_Memeson and @pookeythekid , debates really can be interesting!)

 

I need whatever the people that think archer is balanced r on.

 

Wasn't this a thread based off of the h8 of dwarf/engineer?

 

I am going to ignore most of the argument cause im too lazy to type up a counter argument that means nothing

Thats mcpvp stats lord, Mcpvps maps i can say were infamously op for archer due to very open areas with medium to no cover. Balloons, fallen angel, beaver creek old days, dragons whatever in mcpvp, etc.

I dont think archers balanced, it isnt, it still has an instakill, but if the instakills removed before other classes are reworked to work with said removed instakill, cappers will be unstoppable, especially a chemist, with 1+ engineer and medics. I would say a lucky pyro or assassin could kill it, but thats lottery chance luck. I dont want recovery basically useless once a soldier gets away on some maps. Blackout and whiteout come to mind.

I wouldnt mind its instakill removed IF its after other classes are reworked or something so archer can still pose a threat to carriers. Maybe make it so they can only instakill carriers? Idk, just something. I actually dont play archer as much, im more of a heavy/mage now.

 

I read it all, as an archer main, i agree with this nerf, the whole point of an archer is to hit the opponent with an arrow, nor do i care if my arrow did half a heart damage.

 

(@LordChaos_92) Whelp, you got a good argument there, with the medics and engineers n stuff. If something like Admiral's rework were to be implemented, though, a lot of that could be solved with the disability of medics or engineer cakes to heal a player while the arrow is doing its damage over time, forcing the player to self-heal (steak, potion, heal spell; ninja and assassin could either continue to be countered by archer or have adjustments made) or die. Aside from that, say the flag carrier heals theirself with some steak or potions then gets items restored from one of a hundred medics mobbing them, that's just a problem with people, no game mechanic is going to fix that without breaking several other areas.

 

I'd agree. A hundred medics restoring 1 flag bearer seems unfair, but that's more a matter of the teamwork than the class itself. I mean this could be stopped, but it seems a little too difficult for a flag bearer to steal, if he cant get healed!

This now seems more of a question of having no faith in archer not being potent after whatever rework it has. I think the end result will aim to have a similar effect to the pyro rework. I think it's more that it will be less potent, but to be as strong as is fair. That means it will still follow the role it has now, map control, and with the same strengths and weaknesses. The only difference is it'll be harder to accomplish it with the class, which to be honest is fair, because it's really easy right now! With that said, I feel like other classes, not just archer, need a proper fix too. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that, and I expect changes will be brought in alongside archer reworks to address issues which could be seen as unfair.
Oh, and those stats are my brawl ones, not mcpvp ones (see here https://www.brawl.com/players/ShinxWinx3223/ . Yeah, I changed my name to shinx, #IstandwithShinx ) The previous OP archer maps like unholy faith don't apply to this

 

My mcpvp stats were like that, when i was actually good with archer lol. Also yea, i agree, but i would recommend archers rework/nerf be last, as that would screw ctf hard if it was first or something

 

First of all, yes hi I'm here to argue as well. I'm probs not gonna do a lot of it, but better do at least one message on the situation.

Disagreed. Archer rework shouldn't be last, but also shouldn't be first. In my opinion, the classes that should receive the most priority are Dwarf, Necro, Assassin and Engi. But Archer should come a bit later, but not last, as last should only come to classes that just need minor tweaks like Heavy, Soldier (bcuz it was already nerfed), Ninja, Elf and some others. And the absolute last should be Fashionista, just bcuz you can only play it one day of the week and its a joke class, so no need honestly.

Yep and that wraps up my opinion of this matter. Now I shall get going before everyone starts raging at me for posting about a controversial subject.

 

I think ninja should be in the first runner ups because of its ghost capping abilities. Dwarf is used so much now because ninjas abused so much.


Also, you can dodge archer, its a 50/50 if you can stop an assassin, depends on ping and when you notice, i see assassins break through block all the time.