CTF Update Feedback & Archer's Insta-kill~!!

xxSuchPro_Sk1llz2111231xXXx: "archrs fine as it is! pl0z dun nurf it"
pookeythekid: *OP snipes with one shot* "What was that?"

Other than that, all I gotta say: Admiral's Archer Rework
@Admiral_Memeson

 

Some interesting points, but Archer's instakill should never be removed. Maybe made avoidable in some way, but it should never be reduced to anything less than 10 hearts true damage.

The thing is, if you shoot at very long range, in many cases you only get 1 shot to instakill anyways. If it took 2 shots, that would already destroy a lot of opportunities to kill your opponent. If the shots are difficult enough, I don't see anything wrong with instakills as it's a well deserved reward(unlike with Assassin).
Though, I understand, in many Situations where it's like around 30 blocks and you have easy targets, headshots are definetly op.


Easiest solution:
-Increase Entity Render Distance
-Make headshots only work at 40-50 blocks minimum

That way headshots would be harder to pull off, so the instakill is well earned.

But it's unlikely that they will increase entity render distance(which right now is around 60 blocks, I believe) since the servers laggy enough as it is.

 

The ability to block headshots would be a very nice compromise for the two sides: no instakill, yes instakill. The people who want the instant kill can still do their thing with a little adjustment, and those against instant kill can actually survive if they see an archer preparing to fire. This will force both sides to adjust. A headshot blocking mechanic could be more easily implemented if shields are added to ctf. Of course, this is all my opinion.

 

This is good post. I like.

I love how many of these threads just use the word removed, nerfed or destroyed when referring to dwarf. I haven't seen rework though.
Assassin doesn't take skill to be played. The problem is when someone actually has a lot of skill and plays it, making it insanely good to the point of getting completely overpowered.

 

M'kay. Haven't played CTF in months. Got bored, checked the brawl website and saw this under the CTF section and literally dropped my coffee mug. You've got to be kidding. C'mon Scape, you've played CTF long enough to know that head-shots are not as nearly overpowered as they look. It actually takes some effort to get a head-shot... C'mon man... Tbh, kinda figured this topic would eventually spring up from a chemist main.. lol.. Not gonna lie, felt this way sometimes but you've just gotta think about it.

 

is your definition of "effort" sitting at an "archer spot" where 90% of classes cannot touch you and shooting enemies with no consequence for missing?

 

I agree, as a newer chemist that is trying to improve I find it frustrating that I have to use 2/5 of my health pots to be able to stay alive in an accouter with a archer.
An archer nerf would be loved.

 

As a person playing chemist more often as of late I find it frustrating that I can't do anything in the first place. ^-^ (like, with or without chemist, just anything .-.)

To me it would seem that the longer one plays CTF, the more times they will have played archer, therefore the more practice they will have had and the easier they will find it to get a headshot. js.

 

Honestly an archer nerf is a terrible idea. Let me explain!

First of all, Archer is a necessity when it comes to most games these days. A lot of stalemates happen here and there, and the only thing that can stop such stalemates are archers. Doesn't that suck? It's the harsh truth. The poison is the antidote. Archer is necessary to balancing the game. It sounds like bull****, however it is true. Trying to "balance" archer will completely imbalance everything else. No nerf to Soldier, Chemist, or any other class will suffice to an Archer nerf.

Another problem, capturing the flag will become entirely easy now. Over the years of playing I've seen reworks, maps, ideas all being catered to make it easier to be an offensive player. Just for an example, think of the Ninja sword, egg, redstone, and pearl nerf (basically the entire class), the nerf to Assassin and Pyro (not the rework, it's first nerf). The maps that are guilty of this are Castle Caverns (rotation), Castle Wars, anything with Castle in it really, Medieval Siege, the list goes on. Anyhow, a nerf to archer is basically just giving people free caps now.

Now, yes, Archer is quite over-powered when you get down to it. Free kills from a distance, who thought of such a revolting idea? There is no denying Archer is very strong. However there really isn't anything we can do about it unfortunately. If Archer's insta-kill is either removed, or preventable at the least, stalemates will be close to be impossible to end.

And, another less-important argument, Archer really shouldn't be make anyway up close and PvP based at all. Yes, it is a PvP server before anyone does point that out, however CTF has always been a pretty friendly and welcoming game for those who do suck at PvP, and it would be good to keep it that way.

It's a tragic fate for the game, and it sucks that Archer's position is where it is at. The reality is that things are going to have to be catered to Archer, and not Archer to be the one changing.

Feel free to point out any mistakes or anything you disagree with about my post, I will be more than delighted to discuss the class.

 

One of the main things i hate is that chemist has so little pots now and a bow spammer will bring your health and pots down before you even get to the flag. I hate how it does so much damage to a chemist and that ability really doesn't have a reason to be there.

 

Hi tvis! my name is Admiral, I like walks in the rain, dank memes, and I disagree with pretty much everything in your post Here is why:

OH BOY! This old argument again.

My favorite...

Lol. Help us Chhimmi-wan-Kenobi! Your archery skills are our only hope!

Also I'm getting the impression you forgot about Assassins here. You know, Assassins, the class that p*sses everyone off except the dude who's getting orgasmic satisfaction from dicking around, killing flag carriers, Dwarves, Pyro's, and just generally ruining everyone's day like f*ckin Barney the big purple, child molesting fuggit.

Were you talking about your logic train here? Because I agree, totally ignoring the class that is the no.1 cause of divorce between flags and flag carriers in CTF did indeed suck for your argument.

I know. Don't worry tvis, I'm here for you bro.

OH GOD

I know man. Sometimes I wake up in the morning, play some CTF Archer and just wonder to myself, "What the hell where they thinking?"

Look, I know its the little things that keep you going but let's be honest here: while Archer is important to the game it is not like Donald Trump. When an Archer does something stupid it does not make national headlines on five hundred different news networks. When an Archer says something racist it is not the next topic of Jimmy Kimmel, LIVE! When an Archer takes a gigantic sh*t there are not thousands of adoring supporters asking if they can autograph it. Archer, unlike Donald Trump, is not the lord of dank memes.

What changes would have to be made to the game via an Archer 'nerf' or rework would depend greatly on how Archer was changed. It is the epitome of hyperbole to start screaming "MAYDAY!" just because it gets changed. That would be like me saying this if Elf got buffed:

"OH LORDY! This is like the time when they decided to make a FIFTH Rocky movie. Like literally three people play Elf, not enough to call for a f*ckin rework. HOW COULD THEY DO THIS TO ME??? MY LIFE IS OVER MAN!!!"

@NomNuggetNom, just make me your b*tch. I swear. Just do it. It's over. I can't do this sh*t anymore.

That leads me to a couple other things: What is being talked about here is not balancing Archer (which is a horrible idea) but changing it through nerfs or reworks so that it is not the equivalent of an extremely powerful lubricated vibrator with Chhimmi's picture on it for @LordChaos_92 and frankly, I have no problems with that not being a thing anymore. It's kinda weird anyway.

Finally, how on earth can you imbalance something that is already imbalanced? CTF's meta is even more ridiculous than the five hundredth level of Pac-Man, if Archer was Necro'd (ORIGINAL JOKE), then things would still be absolutely awful as they are right now.

Assassin. Mage. Medic. Your mom.

Assassin. Mage. Medic. Your mom.

Also, you're forgetting about that one class that, much like Adam Sandler, is still the annoying piece of doody we have all come to collectively hate: Dwarf.

HALLELUJAH!

Finally found one f*cking thing in here I agree with. Praise the f*ckin lord Jesus H. Christmas!

Whoa, did you just go full Hillary Clinton on this discussion? I can hear her talking now:

"Well, yes the current situation is total bull**** but I'm afraid there's just nothing we can do about it!"

Great way to run a game-mode right there.

What.

I suck at PvP and I think CTF is the seventh level of hell.

CTF is as friendly for people who suck at PvP as Freddy Fazbear's Pizzeria is for security guards lol.

Because... what? Because real change is too hard? Because in the world of endless slippery slope fallacies changing Archer would ruin everything because... reasons?

Words fail me.

No one is advocating for massively changing Archer and throwing it back into the game with nothing else altered. We are simply saying that the class should see some changes, like not being able to deal insane damage to Chemist from basically any distance or not being able to rack up 100 killstreak games at the expense of basically everyone else. In my view that is not one bit unreasonable.

Good day to you.

 

^

 

Thank you, will be happy to point out where I disagree

Being a necessity for games doesn't mean that it should be overpowered. If anything it's a reason for it to be balanced properly because it's necessity means at least someone will play it every game. The sheer number of archers in the game, plus it being a free class (so anyone can play it) means that there's also likely to be quite a few of them, so it's important we balance a class that has a necessity and a high population

The reason why you change other classes in such a way as to prevent this from happening at the same time. It might be impossible to get a perfectly balanced game, but it could still be a lot better than it is right now. Balancing archer doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be nerfed massively, but more like how pyro was changed to give it a better skill curve.

Even if archer was changed so instakills were gone (and this is going to happen), it doesn't actually mean the class will be changed so that it's major strengths and weaknesses will change all that much. It still needs to provide that role in the game as it was added for that reason. That means it should stay long range crowd control, being able to counter long range and be countered short range. The problem right now is that it's too good at that, that's all. As for nothing we can do about it, there are plenty of reworks on the subject of changing archers instakill. Not all of them are very good in my opinion, but we certainly have options so I don't see how we can't do anything about it

This is something I actually agree with, the very name "archer" suggests long ranged. It really annoys me when people misuse the word PVP. PVP literally means player vs player, irrespective of the weapons involved. I literally don't understand why people get this and short ranged fighting mixed up, because they're not the same thing at all. I completely agree with you, whilst most classes are close range based, archer is different because it should be longer ranged. Oh and people can suck at player vs player, it should be kept somewhat easy to use as well. I'd argue that would not mean that it should be overpowered, but instead with relatively few abilities to master so that as a free class, it's basic and easy to pick up.

As I've just pointed out, archer is going to be changed whether you like it or not. Instakills have been confirmed to be gone so archer will be changed. Some people agree that they should go, others don't. I've also already pointed out there are multiple different suggestions to fix it (One which @Admiral_Memeson came up with, and I think it's pretty good, so I'd advise to check that one out). With that said, I don't think it's just archer that needs to be changed. I think there are aspects of multiple classes which should go, some of which are probably more pressing than the issues archer has (dwarf anyone?!) I would argue that these changes need to be pushed at the same time rather than seperately so things don't become unbalanced the other way, which would be equally bad. Additionally, I would argue the problem isn't ner***e, but more balancing. Nerf one class and another will become too powerful. Moving it in a cycle like that is only detrimental. Balancing may mean improving it in certain areas to make it fair without having to nerf literally everything.

Sounds fun, maybe I should take it up. In all seriousness though. Assassin is annoying. Blocking is being changed in 1.9 anyway so lets hope that a reworked assassin is on the horizon

It's arguable trying to rework something has a risk in making it worse than it already is, but to be honest, given the testing that they must do for these reworks, I don't think this risk is even noticeable. Oh and yes, that is how I think about archer, you found my great secret

Sounds like the british government right now. Well, we're screwed. In the meantime, let's not try to follow a system which we already know is a stalemate and just delays the inevitable changes which are needed to make the gamemode fair

I'm not even advocating a massive amount of nerfs for archer. It just needs some changes to not be quite as powerful as it is now. Also giving it a better skill curve would also be nice

 

^

 

I think all of ctf needs a rework, and 1.9 is the best way to do it. The new combat mechanics could prove to be interesting and I kinda wanna see the sheild and the elytra incorporated into a class. I am very interested to see the changes they make

 

Yeah that g0d damn damage to chemists from archers is so annoying, especially now we have less instant heal pots to play with. It's always that case that you have me at full health before approaching/passing an archer, which requires health regen sometimes just can't deliver. Also, if you're shot by an archer, you get knocked back, therefore meaning you are often thrown down a 2-3 block hole, resulting in your death as chemists can't regen in mid-air. @scapecrafter agreed w/ the fact archer should do x1.5 dmg, not x3. Maybe the sword does x3, not the bow?

 

Noone has mentioned about the necro being basically useless? I get 0 kills from 10 games but in the old mcctf I got easy 10 kills per game, usually more. Could necro get bigger spawn rate mobs, faster mobs(+bigger range) or more damage mobs?

 

Right click let go get kills eZ