Idea What direction to take with Archer? - Poll

Make archer respawn a thing

 

where is the 'remove archer' option?

 

IMO change other classes before changing archer. Defensive classes simply aren't powerful enough for archer to require a nerf. While I think it needs a change eventually, I still think archer is a necessary evil due to soldier's mobility and medic teams (all medic teams, not just medic + medic), and like medic, if you put a decent ninja or mage or whatever on it, it's basically nullified.

It should be more difficult to capture than defend, and right now, I don't think it is unless you really have a giant defense. I mean we've literally been having 30 minute stalemates on blackout, so Idk why people want to make it even easier to stalemate. Archer may need a change. Or it might not. It really depends on the buffs (hopefully) or nerfs that classes get.

And yes, I do realize how annoying archer is/can be. While I technically "main" it, I play multiple classes more than I play archer.

 

reasons archer is needed:
-stalemates/recovery
-crowd clearance and preventing all the offense from going in at once

reasons archer should be nerfed:
-there is no mechanical counter in game for it. you can try to dodge shots, but dodging isn't a built in mechanic that works every time
-it is really easy to play and so a very strong class considering how simple the mechanic to get kills is
-it is TOO strong at defending

so imo instakill shouldnt be removed because otherwise a lot of other classes would have to be nerfed to compensate for a lack of a strong recovery class, which I don't think is ideal. but while instakill is needed in this situation, it is not needed in most other situations and is why the class is so strong elsewhere. I therefore think archer should still be just as strong on flag carriers but it should be weakened when being used generally

tl;dr instakill is needed for recov but it is too strong elsewhere

 

Suggestion:
hence archer instakill is actually needed on a lot of maps to do stuff on defense/midfield/recovery this should not be changed.
This does not mean we can't change the rest.
@GalaThundR you had an interesting idea but it needed some extra elaboration, allow me to use your concept and post my reworked version of your idea here.
As you said yourself we should reduce archer arrows, I do not disagree with that however the amount you suggested is extremely low and would be a severe punishment for missing. You combined this with removing Punch I which makes things even worse for archer. Cannot say I would love to see Punch I removed, should have happened a while ago to be honest.

What I kinda would prefer is to see the Arrow count be reduced to 20-32 arrows with arrows regenerating every 5-10 seconds (open for suggestions..?) with the start amount of arrows being the maximum amount possible. This should be combined with removing Punch I.
Result of the above: archers are forced to hit their shots, medics aren't able to give their arrows back so archers are completely dependent on what they shoot on an offensive wave and a possible carrier with protection wave. If archers miss their shots, it's a 5 second punishment, those 5 seconds could be lethal for a capture / carrier squad.

Problem: A good elf could block arrows and make life on the archer even harder, I haven't seen a lot of elves do it so I would dare to say this is a minor problem.

I have some other questions about a possible archer rework/tweak:
- Would the damage on chemists mana rework please remain the same?
- Mana for headshots? Chemists got mana because of potspam, perhaps elaborate a mana-based archer?
-Should medic still be able to give back the archer's arrows? (suggestion above ^)

To those who think instakill should be removed:
Imagine maps like Blackout, Valley of Ruin Original - ish maps, on which archer has a core role in basically anything, the archer that rules midfield can decide the game or not. This is based on the instakill, which is needed because a well-organised offense can steal pretty easily with pyro being weak to buffed heavy, medic with it's re-given Sharpness I and ninja with it's Sharpness V. Assassin can put in work but should normally not be a total gamechanger and will rarely prevent a well-organised, communicating offense, which basically all teams have, from capping.
Remove archer's instakill, bring back some sort of pyro instakill or else defense and recovery would be broken, soldiers would rule all soldier maps and remain basically untouched, with the exception of ninjas and other soldiers (sometimes elf). Defense needs to be a powerhouse in order not to have broken offense. Offenses are already getting out of the flagroom way too easily, it would only get worse if archer would lose it's core role on certain maps by having lost it's instakill.

 

Just make it so you have to hit the head......

 

If we want to keep archers instantkill around, then other classes need to be buffed respectively. There simply cannot be a power gap this big between classes if the game is expected to be balanced.

 

Really, the role of archer is either to assist in recovery or defense, taking out higher priority targets (Regular players, heavies, medics, chemists, flag carriers) and anyone else they can possibly pick out before the offense arrives in the flagroom. While I would love to see instakill go from archer, or at least make it a bit more broadcasted that arrows are in fact coming to your local theater, I do think its very important for the role I listed above.

 

I suggest an armour nerf, because a ninja has a very hard time to take out an armour that knows how to pvp. I think that archer was given full chainmail for aesthetic purposes: (in the beginning each kit had a full set of the same armour.) But now since every class discussion is about ''balance'', that idea has become obsolete. I don't get why a sniper class needs tanky armour like that anyway.

Furthermore, remove archer's ridiculous advantage over chemist.

 

Can't we just wait for brawl to update to 1.11, get the old pvp system and just use shields (mojang made shields because ranged has an advantage on melee right now).
+
who voted to remove punch 1 because of the bowspam? Honestly the knockback gets reduced but not the knock up and bowspam is about the knock up (I have a lot of servers where I simply bowspam with no punch on bow) just to make clear, no punch doesn't have enough impact on bowspamming to stop it huehuehue.
I like the travel arrow idea tho.

If you up the headshot distance to 35 and make everything under that do more damage because of travel time. Would be cool!!1!

Another feature that I've seen on several little pvp servers is archers jump-running and using their arrows in front of them to knock themselves forward. An amazing escape mechanic.(aka make archers able to hit themselves, won't do much harm to the game (prevent kill farming tho lmao).

Another thing, upping the headshot distance is not always a good solution since not everyone has 30+ renderdistance and optifine.

Conclusion
-wait for the shield system before changing archer
-removing punch doesn't affect bowspam too much
-Travel idea is lit as long as it keeps the instakill at the very end
-self-arrow-boosting is an amazing escape strategy, honestly should be added
-render distance < headshot distance players.

Who else likes the self-arrow-boosting?
BOWSPAM FOR LAIF
-Slayway